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#801 22 Jul 2021 12:51 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I still have plans and the okoume ply to build one of Iain Oughtred’s MacGregors. The 16’ length was what I’d planned to build back around 1986 or so. Less complicated than a Waterlust, still two masts & balanced lug rigged, lots less freeboard & maybe half the weight?

Oughtred_MacGregor.jpeg

Or maybe Rushton’s Princess?

Rushton_Princess.jpg

But age & stamina overruled in favor of a Waterlust once I got wind of the design back late in 2016. Lobbied hard w/ John & Dillon to see it as a kit sold to folks like us.

Last edited by spclark (22 Jul 2021 12:54 am)

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#802 25 Jul 2021 1:17 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Forget what I posted as weights for spars. I discovered last night that the scale’s batteries were failing, needed to be replaced. Those numbers were more than likely inaccurate.

Masts & spars now have two coats of epoxy, the main’s been sanded then a third thin coat applied. The others get heavy second coat sanded today, then a thin coat added, varnish starts tomorrow. Will weigh ‘em before varnish goes on, see what’s what.

Otherwise my hull’s ready for launch, likely be next w/e. Too darn hot here now, supposed to be close to 90F/32C for the daily high until maybe this coming Friday. No fun being out under the sun.

Last edited by spclark (25 Jul 2021 1:19 pm)

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#803 28 Jul 2021 9:40 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I'm waiting on a reply from CLC after asking a question about what 'hull weight' published on their Waterlust design's web page takes into account.

After arriving at a weight for my completed hull yesterday (arrived at by two separate means, both in agreement within a couple of pounds) I estimate my ready-to-launch hull weighs 126 lbs / 57.2kg.

Not substantially off the 115 lbs suggested, that extra 11 lbs easily attributable to heavier fillets, extra fiberglass cloth & more epoxy I'd used being an inexperienced stitch'n'glue builder.

Various finished components I'd included in a first weighing attempt added another 31.2 lbs / 14.2 kg which at first glance scared me a bit. Those items' weights are:

Mirage drive and daggerboard each @ 6.6 lbs / 3.3 kg;
sails and sail bag @ 5.8 lbs / 2.6 kg;
rudder & cassette @ 5.6 lbs / 2.5 kg;
battery-powered bilge pump unit and tiller @ 6.6 lbs / 3.3 kg.

So until I hear back from CLC I'm going to assume their 'hull weight' figure is for a bare, complete hull without any of the items that would need to be added for use. Maximum payload ought then have to include weight of an operator.

Curious if any of you other builders have numbers you can share for comparison.

Last edited by spclark (29 Jul 2021 3:08 pm)

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#804 29 Jul 2021 9:13 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 83

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Nice work on getting your boat ready for launch, SP!

It's been too hot here to sail as well as having no real wind over the last two weeks.  Looks like there may be a chance for tomorrow evening, so we'll see...

I've always interpreted the CLC weights as 80# for the bare hull (no spars, fittings, or foils), and 115# for the sailing weight from the text on the front page of the Waterlust listing on their web site:

"Plenty of fiberglass cloth reinforcement and saturating coats of epoxy yield a stiff, rugged hull that weighs just about 80lbs. Fully rigged, the Waterlust Sailing Canoe weighs about 115 pounds."

My car-top weight was 105# (no spars or foils, but with deck mounted fittings).  I learned a good deal about the epoxy process as I went along, and think I could do the job now with less glue (but probably not 10# less (over a gallon!)).  The biggest change to my process would be to not just pour the first epoxy coat onto the fiberglass covered bare wood, as I learned that it really soaks in deep (I can unfortunately still see the pour marks on the top deck) -- next time I would roll on a thin seal coat before putting down the glass and the first glue pour.

SP, what did you decide on for a boat cover?  I still haven't worked out mine yet; the cord in the groove in the coaming I think isn't going to work as it is just too difficult to get the cord to stay in (the cord keeps popping out of the groove as it is stretched to go over the last corner of the coaming).  I think I am going to go with a rectangular waterproof sheet just laid over the cockpit with grommets in the edges, tied under the boat to grommets on the other side.

I'm really interested to hear your first impressions when you launch!

Last edited by Chuck (29 Jul 2021 9:27 pm)

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#805 29 Jul 2021 11:05 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Chuck if you managed to get a bare hull weighing 105 lbs I commend you!

This afternoon I received an e-mail reply from Terry Otis at CLC that included comments such as:

"The 115 pound hull weight is the design weight of just the hull; it does not include the sail rig or rudder/daggerboad, Mirage drive, etc."

"Yes, the max (400 lb) payload includes the operator."

"I think you are well within the design parameters of this boat.  The builder's technique in applying epoxy and fiberglass can make the difference of a few pounds, but should not be that significant.  The boat is designed to handle the additional weight of the sail rig, rudder, and Hobie Mirage Drive."

" I respect your caution and concerns, but the Waterlust Canoe will take good care of you."

So there's that, and a small possibility my digital bathroom scale's off by some factor.

I'm comfortable with the weight as it sits right now around 126 lbs. My 175 will bring it to 301. Spars & hardware remain yet unaccounted for but with 99 lbs capacity left there's ample leeway once the 32 lbs of stuff's aboard with me.

Sometime later this summer I'll be looking into getting estimates for a custom boat cover of some sort. I'd rather not trailer extensively with the cockpit open to the weather, the only reason I'd need a cover as the canoe and trailer fits nicely in my half of our 2-1/2 car garage. If I can get away with a half-cover for the cockpit only that may prove more economical. I can find or make up a plug for the mizzen pocket, keep water & debris out of that fairly easily. The main pockets I'm not too worried about as they're essentially simply open-topped containers but even there I can see value in fabricating a plug of sorts for each.

My next post here likely will be a report on my launch Sunday or Monday, hopefully with pictures and maybe even a link to a video posted on Youtube.

Weather's been hot here too, not much breeze at all until last night's storms that brought 45 mph gusts at Midnight along with 1-1/2" of rain. Should be cooler the next few days, no scant mention of storms but lots of haze & smoke from the wildfires up in Canada. Even smells smokey, it's that thick.

Stay tuned....

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#806 30 Jul 2021 2:55 am

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 83

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

SP, I've always interpreted the 400# payload as meaning that you can put 400# of extra stuff into the boat (besides the boat).  So, total displacement should be ~515# fully loaded following that line of reasoning.  I think you'll see once you get it out how much freeboard you will have, which I think will be a lot.  I've had mine out with two adults in it (~300#), and it didn't seem heavily loaded at all.  In fact, as you know it needs a decent amount of weight in it just to get it close to its lines otherwise you can run into the problematic lee helm situation I ran into when the front of the boat was too far out of the water...

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#807 30 Jul 2021 3:06 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

That lee helm thing is trim. Yes on-board weight helps but too much can be tricky for stability.

I’d ‘assumed’ the same about that 400 lb payload, why I put it to CLC staffers to confirm. With Dillon out of the picture now (who’d know best, as designer) I have to go by what I can believe is relevant to the issue. As an ‘expedition’ canoe I can readily believe 400 lbs of gear aboard might be possible if the explorer is competent in boat handling.

I’ve looked & looked for a displacement figure to no avail. You’ve seen one you can point me towards? That’d be worth having!

Should have more first-person knowledge soon enough.

Last edited by spclark (30 Jul 2021 3:08 am)

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#808 31 Jul 2021 5:42 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 246

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Chuck and SP well done with your progress!
Just returned from being 'off the grid' and now catching up on posts.
I can't really contribute to the displacement discussion, other than to say that I have sailed with two up plus my 15kg daggerboard and there is no adverse effect on stability. I have found that a 25kg jerrycan fits very nicely in the forward compartment. It just fits through the hatch and is snug against the maststep box. I have glued in a small retaining rib on the floor and pass a strap through this  this helps when I sail solo.
waterlust-water-ballast.jpg
Good luck on your maiden voyage SP. With Guy, we have together been on quite a voyage of discovery over the last 18 months  and I have enjoyed every minute of it. Thank you both. Now for the next chapter!

Last edited by MartinC (31 Jul 2021 3:47 pm)

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#809 31 Jul 2021 5:44 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 246

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Posting of photos has not been my finest achievement! Can someone get rid of the duplicate one above?

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#810 31 Jul 2021 11:00 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin thanks for that all. 25kg (water?) in that compartment is exactly the kind of 'payload' I'd think was considered for such a craft. How does it affect trim when in place, under sailing conditions you've encountered?

As for that duped image? I think only a moderator here or yourself can effect the removal. This forum makes edits easy!

Go to your post, click the <edit> button. Once you see your post in the next window as just text, look for where your image file exists as two duplicate strings like this:

Edit_Post.jpg

Simply highlight the duplicate image link - like the text shown in that image, between the two  bracket pairs - then hit the <delete> button. Once you've then hit the <submit> button you'll see your duplicate is magically gone!

Last edited by spclark (31 Jul 2021 11:11 am)

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#811 31 Jul 2021 11:06 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Road tesing trailer and Waterlust onnit went splendidly a couple of days ago! Their 'first day out' even if there's no water about to play in!

Road_Test.jpg

I'll be adding a 'third red eye' that'll hang off that lower pintle when trailering. With a plug into the trailer's wiring harness it'll be easy enough to use as needed for safety with that 42" overhang wagging behind me. This little daytime excursion I felt was safe enough without that! Hard to avoid seeing a bright yellow-with-a-red-stripe-too pointy thing in your face in daytime, but folks do get distracted by all sorts of things when they're driving these days, eh?

Last edited by spclark (31 Jul 2021 11:16 am)

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#812 31 Jul 2021 3:57 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 246

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks for the IT advice SP. Easy!
'Jane' is looking really good on her trailer. Certainly would distract me if I was driving past!
Yes. The 25kgs is water. I don't use it all the time, as it is unnecessary weight when pedalling, but for sailing it adds noticable extra stability when the wind gets up. Water ballast is great as you can adjust to suit the conditions, although 25kgs is a lot of weight to lift in and out. Next winter I may experiment with a hose and pump attachment.

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#813 31 Jul 2021 5:20 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Martin! My hope is that she looks even better once we get her out & into her natural element!

(K)not being a nautical type I may be asking for knotty advice regarding tying things together when I start fitting her up with the sailing gubbins I’ve prepared, so please stand by to field my cries for assistance!!

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#814 2 Aug 2021 2:42 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 246

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Only to pleased to help if I can. Nautical types make much of knots!
I have found that if you can do a bowline and a half hitch you can set sail .... anything else is a bonus.

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#815 2 Aug 2021 4:17 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Martin!

Since posting that I’ve been studying the copious info on one of Michael Storer’s websites:

https://www.opengoose.com/tuning-and-se … e-sailing/

Among the vast info he’s put up, he expands your pair by three: bowline, half-hitch, figure 8, reef/square/‘Flemish’ then clove hitch.

I started adding hardware & some rigging for sails yesterday. Helps having Waterlust out of garage so I can step both masts.

Found I’d ordered stuff I probably won’t use, need stuff I don’t have… need to ask if I can return some items despite the passage of vastly more’n 30 days.

So much easier picking stuff off a display wall over looking at pics & sussing dimension info from ‘specs’ that might be a bit dodgey. Alas, set up yet another order late yesterday.

What dia. hole in mizzen spars you use? What size line for tack & clew lashings? Precious little wood left there.

Last edited by spclark (2 Aug 2021 4:19 pm)

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#816 3 Aug 2021 2:50 am

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 83

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi SP-

I use 3mm line for tack and clew lashing, 2mm would probably work for the grommets not at the corners. For the corner ones that stretch out the head and foot, I'd suggest spectra (I used the core of the 4mm Marlow racing line from Duckworks (I think that idea came from the Michael Storer pages).

4mm polypropylene for rudderlines (stretches less than nylon, cheaper than spectra)

But, if you want to go with natural colored line, options change of course. I like different colors to easily identify line functions. Don't forget about dock lines if needed (5mm nylon to horns on the deck). Every time I put the boat in the water and then cast off from the dock I need dock lines to horns in the middle of the boat, because one can't reach the tied off painters from the cockpit. And, one can also add a loop of rope to the bow to carry a ring for an anchor; I believe Martin may have installed a system like this.

You'll probably want a bungee to keep your daggerboard down, too. I'll send a picture of my setup next time I head to the 'boat shed' (garage).  I also rigged some bungeee with hooks to some eyes on deck to hold the mainsail in a good position on top of the deck if it needs to come down for high wind or to get on and off the trailer -- not much room for a mainsail AND a person in the cockpit, especially if you want to paddle (or peddle).

(It was a long winter and I spent too much time thinking about rigging!)

Last edited by Chuck (3 Aug 2021 5:17 am)

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#817 3 Aug 2021 5:59 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 246

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

6mm holes in spars work fine. When drilling them, it does look like you are taking all the meat out of the wood, but it works.

I agree entirely with Chuck about dock lines and the daggerboard bungee. On my centre line cleats, I tie off both fore and aft painters amidships and have a spare each side for mooring. (Don't forget a fender and somewhere to tie it).

I also like Chuck's idea of the bungee straps on deck for taming the flapping sail and spars, although I should sail first to get the positioning right.

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#818 3 Aug 2021 2:35 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thank you both for your comments. 6mm seems a ‘reasonable’ size for those lash points.

I used 1/2” / 12mm for what I put in the ‘glass-reinforced forward ends on the main’s spars where the wood’s heftier & forces greater.

Guess I’m stuck on heftier line weight thinking too in this Dynema age? I have 50’ of Marlow 4mm coming Friday to mess about with. For now other lines are single- or double-braided Dacron until I’ve had a few afternoons’ under sail to sort out where less stretch could be better. That and the latest hardware bits aren’t arriving ‘till Friday so there’s slim chance to deploy any of it before planned excursion to 1st launch mid-Sat. AM with a friend & his daughter.

Surprisingly my wife Susanne last Sunday morning expressed her intent to accompany us all, an unexpected declaration….

Oh and a comment on Michael Storer’s web pages; valuable information throughout! Very helpful making the obscure clear to me. Had I stumbled across them before learning of the Waterlust project I might have built an Oz Goose I think. Scant elegance yet high performance on a slim budget!

Last edited by spclark (3 Aug 2021 2:40 pm)

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#819 6 Aug 2021 5:38 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 83

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi everyone,

I went out sailing a couple of evenings ago.  The wind started off a little more than I have dealt with so far, probably about 9 knots blowing onto the dock, but with a 3 mile fetch there were some waves.  I put in anyway with the boat on the upwind side of the dock -- a mistake.  The little 10" waves were enough to bang the boat against the dock , ripping the rudder off as the yoke caught all the pilings.  The tiller then swept the mizzen off the back deck into the water, and I was happy that the evening didn't end up with a shredded sail wrapped around the skeg.  When I raced on a bigger boat and we would have a rare spinnaker in the water incident, we would call it 'going shrimping'.  Next time I will launch with the boat downwind of the dock (and hold tight to the painters). 

At least this time I didn't capsize the boat on the trailer as I pulled the car with boat away from the ramp (how embarrassing).  It is now a requirement that I customize the bunks on the stock Trailex trailer to fit the bottom of the boat: when the boat wasn't quite setting on them perfectly, it came to rest off kilter enough to tip it over as the boat lowered down onto the bunks as the car pulled out of the water.

I though I'd post a few pictures of a couple of solutions that I am trying on my boat in case it may be of interest:

My ballast solution at the moment:

IMG_8652.jpg
10 liter bags, each weighing 22 pounds.  I have been using 4 of these; may go to 5.  I have not yet devised a system for tying them down to the bottom of the main compartment, which could be a serious issue if there is a capsize and all the ballast shifts around, making it difficult to right the boat.  Hmm, I just thought of something while writing this: the bags nearly cover the entire floor when set down flat; perhaps I can rig some sort of floorboards to put on top of them to hold them in place and also have a more usable compartment without water bags sticking out all over.  I'll have to think about this...

Here are a couple of pictures of some of my deck rigging, showing the bungee cord setup I have for holding the mainsail secure on deck (which has kept the main from going in the water many times!):

IMG_8654D.jpgIMG_8656D.jpg

I use this system all the time: hoist the sail on the trailer to get all the rigging adjusted, then lower it and bungee it down to the deck, launch the boat and paddle out upwind a bit, then undo the bungee and hoist the sail.  When secured down the sail sits on top of the main downhaul (not the halyard), so I still have easy access to the necessary line to raise the sail from the deck.

And SP -- here is my solution for putting the mainmast inside the cockpit for the road.  (Well, mostly inside anyway)

Here is a photo that does a decent job showing the seat I rigged up:
IMG_8657D.jpg
Nothing special here, but it works.  And, is almost necessary to do any sort of paddling since otherwise it is too difficult to reach the water from the floor of the cockpit.

Here is a photo that shows the anchor loop setup to the bow (yellow 5mm nylon cord):
IMG_8653D.jpg
Haven't used this yet, but imagine it will work ok.

And lastly, a photo showing the simple bungee rig I devised for holding the daggerboard down:
IMG_8658D.jpg

Last edited by Chuck (6 Aug 2021 6:21 pm)

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#820 7 Aug 2021 6:12 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 246

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks for those photo's Chuck. Our thought processes are running in parallel.  I particularly like your mainsail securing technique which I will be copying.

PS Don't be embarrased about your boating 'bloopers'.  We have all been there. I discovered on my maiden voyage how very unstable the Waterlust is if you try and launch her by sliding her down a riverbank by holding one end...she flips over! I bailed out, climbed in and then almost immediately snagged the mainsheet and capsized.  Of course there was a crowd of onlookers!

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#821 7 Aug 2021 10:53 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I hope my launching will be a little more elegant, off its trailer… had planned it for ~ 4 hrs from now but it appears weather’s not going to cooperate. Storms incoming, 1-2” of rain predicted. Less volume tomorrow but still 70% chance of water from above.

Oh well, some other day soon.

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#822 8 Aug 2021 10:22 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

It_FLOATS-_01.jpg

It_FLOATS-_02.jpg

It_FLOATS-_03.jpg

She FLOATS! And moves nicely under Mirage power alone! Seems stable enough but with just bare poles I'm certain my opinion'll change once I get sail(s) set!

Hope to get finished with getting sails laced on starting tomorrow. I'm half-way now; rain all day yesterday gave no opportunity to get her out of garage so I could step the main mast to get main laced up. That rain left 2+" behind before leaving the area & we had more overnight, even caused a slight delay once the maiden launch event got out to the small impoundment near home.

Had some friends helping, taking pics, one of which captured a couple of Amish wagons heading home after church, stopping on the causeway to see what was going on down in the hollow below:

Onlookers.jpg

Another friend's in a sailing club on a lake an hour north of here, better water for sailing and a nice launch site where I can maybe do some capsize & recovery trials next weekend with the sails in place.

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#823 9 Aug 2021 2:28 am

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 83

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Congratulations, SP!

Your boat looks fantastic, and the beautiful Midwest pastoral countryside reminds me of where I grew up in Iowa

I look forward to hearing about your first sailing outing!

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#824 9 Aug 2021 2:42 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 324

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Where’d you grow up Chuck?

Iowa’s less than five miles from where I put Nora Jane in this afternoon. ‘Course that’s the most extreme north-eastern corner of it; there’s a lot more to the south & west.

Thanks for your compliment. I’m right proud of how she looks in her natural element.

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#825 9 Aug 2021 5:14 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 246

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Well done SP! I agree with Chuck, the boat looks really lovely.
If you are a bit nervous about sailing to begin with, may I suggest you put a reef in whatever the wind strength. You will find you move along quite nicely with the reduced sail area, and it will save you from giving yourself a fright - like I did!
Glad to see you have the tiller clamp. This is the single most useful thing I have added, and I think you will find it invaluable when sailing. I recommend Chuck's sail stowage system as well.

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