Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

spclark · 28 Jan 2022 11:33 am

Wow... I got up early this AM, never expecting a compliment of this nature to reveal itself! Thanks MartinC!

No 'private message' function here (yet?) it appears though I've seen such on other forums using this software package.

Under your user profile however there's a selection enabling others to see a user's forum e-mail address though so perhaps that's one way of getting this done. I've just changed my profile to facilitate this but I don't see what effect that selection has had on my user presence here.

I've also sent an e-mail to the forum folks to see if perhaps they can help with your desire MartinC, perhaps as an intermediary to forward e-mails between members?

Last edited by spclark (28 Jan 2022 11:55 am)

Bergen_Guy · 28 Jan 2022 12:16 pm

Wow - that's a very exciting thing Martin! I look forward very much to see what you have written. There is indeed a long and interesting history leading up to the vessels we have, so I am excited to see what you have managed to uncover!

On the subject of books, for those who enjoy writing - I see that Howard Rice and John Welsford are working on a book - "Nutshell Navigation, the small craft advantage" and are looking for contributions. smallcraftbook22@yahoo.com to send in contributions, written or photographic.

The link below takes you to the full description.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/JWDesig … 9224844618

Ian · 28 Jan 2022 12:25 pm

We'd be happy to pass on your email addresses to each other. Just send us an email (the email address is on our website) asking us to pass it on. Exposing your email address on the forum, even temporarily, carries some risk of it being picked up by spambots. (Guy's approach should minimise this, though)

MartinC wrote:

PS If there is someone from FBK reading this, I would like to send you a complementary copy as well. Who do I address it to please?

Thank you very much, Martin! I'm sure it will be an interesting read. You can just address it to Fyne Boat Kits at the address on our website.

Last edited by Ian (28 Jan 2022 12:30 pm)

spclark · 28 Jan 2022 12:33 pm

Ian wrote:

Thank you very much, Martin! I'm sure it will be an interesting read. You can just address it to Fyne Boat Kits at the address on our website.

Thanks!!

MartinC · 28 Jan 2022 1:05 pm

Many thanks Ian
I have sent you an email asking you to let SP, Bergen Guy and Chuck have my email address, so when the recipients get it, could they please send me their postal address and I'll see that you all get a copy of the book.

Bergen_Guy · 30 Jan 2022 8:58 am

On a completely different topic, have any of you considered setting up rope steering, rather than using a tiller? I was just watching a video off a Hereshoff Coquina (lovely boat) where the steering was explained. I thought it looked rather neat and could work on a waterlust. The Coquina uses a ‘closed’ system where a steering line runs continuously from the rudder, forward round a few blocks and back on the other side. It’s possible to steer from anywhere you can reach the line from. The closed system might not be ideal if you are into hiking, or steering standing up, but at least you can’t drop it over the side, and it should be easy to cleat said rope if you want it to self steer for a bit. I may give it a go during the spring ‘fit out’. I will add a steering compass and some internal ‘organising’ pockets.

spclark · 30 Jan 2022 8:56 pm

Yes, back in the 'dreaming' stages just after starting assembly of my CLC kit, I briefly entertained the concept of a rope steering system & what it might contribute to the pleasures of navigating in a Waterlust. Never went beyond though once I got farther into the build, then the rigging, adding a trailer & fitting that to my MINI. Then the stability thing became evident and lobbying for an ama package... which I'm temporarily stalled on. Hulls are done, deck pieces twice-epoxied on bottom, yet to be bonded to their respective hulls. Then the aka part begins.

I think the stall's attributable to winter ennui, lack of opportunities to get about outdoors as it's been rather unseasonably cold & windy since New Year here.

You have a link to that Coquina video Guy? I've seen pics of some builds w/ rope steering, always helpful seeing what others have contrived whether by design or by imagination.

Here's some links I've found thanks to Google:

https://youtu.be/sDzPIcxXlOc

https://m.facebook.com/CalendarOfWooden … ?extid=SEO----

https://messing-about.com/forums/topic/ … f-coquina/

https://www.classicboat.co.uk/articles/ … -day-boat/

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/302515299947649656/

(Glad I thought to check in here today too, missed getting word that you'd posted something new! Somehow I'd gotten logged out it seems....)

Last edited by spclark (30 Jan 2022 9:02 pm)

Bergen_Guy · 30 Jan 2022 10:20 pm

It was from offcentre harbour - so not sure if the link would work for anyone other than me. You are welcome to try!

https://offcenterharbor.us8.list-manage … 21011e183c

spclark · 30 Jan 2022 11:43 pm

Works for me, but I'm a subscriber. Lots of good stuff on OCH website!

Thanks!

MartinC · 31 Jan 2022 6:10 am

Very interesting! I like the idea.
Yes, I have been toying with the idea of rope steering inspirred by my pre-Covid Thames rowing days in a camping skiff of the 1880's.

Also, I believe the original 1880's 'Nautilus' sailing canoe had rope steering!

Last edited by MartinC (31 Jan 2022 6:31 am)

Bergen_Guy · 31 Jan 2022 7:44 am

Very interesting Martin. What a fun vessel that looks to be. I believe you are right about Nautilus - I have the plans on my wall upstairs - will check!

spclark · 31 Jan 2022 2:00 pm

My initial motivation for some non-tillered steering aspect was in conjunction with exploring the potential to add rowing capability to this Waterlust design. Facing rearward, a rower'd be challenged by tiller steering so I envisioned perhaps foot pedals & a cable system to augment steering by oar, similar to what's commonplace on kayaks.

Presently I'm less inclined to pursue that given what I've learned since I launched my build.

With a nod to Maynard's comment about simplicity in that video, that's my focus now in that it's taken me no less than about an hour from arrival to launching each time I've gone out with one or both sails. It's apparent that there's room for improvement rather than a pressing need to add further complications.

(And suggestions about why I keep getting logged out after posting something here would be welcome! I see the 'unsubscribe' option below your post Guy, and I don't get the 'Quick reply' field unless I log in, but I get logged out once I close this browser's window unless I leave my browser up & running.)

Returning to Maynard's video and the comment he made about the (I believe 5:1) advantage built into the rope steering system I had to ponder just how that could be achieved under the rear deck until I went back to one of the links I included earlier where plans are available

https://www.dhylanboats.com/design/plans/coquina_plans/

- showing how the hidden tackle is secured to a frame or bulkhead behind the cockpit:

- which makes clear what LFH found worthy of inclusion yet cleverly hidden from view!

My guess is that such a system would need to be paired on both port and starboard?

Last edited by spclark (31 Jan 2022 2:29 pm)

Chuck · 31 Jan 2022 4:17 pm

Dear Martin,

Many thanks for such a lovely compliment and for producing a work on a subject path we are all quite interested in. I have sent my email address to Fyne for passing along.

On the subject of rope steering: I have been intending to put in a rope steering system this winter. I have it roughly planned out in my head, and these fittings I found should do the trick: https://duckworks.com/racelite-stainless-exit-plates/. My plan is to have the steering line run from both tiller horns through the deck into the cockpit right at the rear coaming, and then run under the coaming all the way around. My goal in putting this in is to have something less likely to get in the way and hung up like the push-pull tiller sometimes does, and to allow for some steering by a person sitting up front when there is also someone sitting in the rear. And, the long span of steering line over the back deck is a place where I hope to set up some rigging to grab the lines and pull them in toward the midline, with the goal of implementing a sort of 'tiller lock' system.

But I have other projects higher on the list! First is to install the Mirage drive, figure out some sort of lazy jack system, and then to build the outriggers that will hopefully arrive in about a week. That, and I need to modify my trailer from stock so that the boat sits on it well, and want to add some vertical posts to the trailer to keep the boat in place while launching and retrieving, so it doesn't start jackknifing sideways like has happened in the past.

And, I am still thinking about adding a jib up front to help improve pointing and provide a little more sail area for low wind days.

So, lots of projects!

On the subject of lazy jacks: for any of you that have them, how did you run the rigging, especially at the masthead? There isn't a lot of room up there with the halliard going through its dumb sheave at the top of the mast!

Last edited by Chuck (31 Jan 2022 4:28 pm)

Bergen_Guy · 31 Jan 2022 8:22 pm

Hiya Chuck! Martin has what looks to be a very tidy lazy jack system on Gaia. If you scroll back far enough you will find them. Lazy jacks are also on my fitting out list this year. I plan to go very simple and just use a couple of shackles as dumb sheaves and run the lazy jacks from that. At my masthead I have a single block lashed through the hole in the mast head. That seems to work just fine, I intend to use the same lashing for the shackles.

In other news I am also sketching plans for a junk rig - I am tempted by the apparent ease of reefing - but a bit put off by the mass of battens and string. We shall see, I think sailing will take priority this year.

MartinC · 1 Feb 2022 6:56 am

Fascinating all the modification projects being considered here! I am sure there is another book to be written in 12 months time!!!

Re. Lazyjacks:- As you will see in the book, I undertook a very radical paring back of all my rigging to make life simpler, and the lazyjacks went.

I did use them, however, with the original rig, and although they were useful in keeping the boom and sail off the deck, they added very substantially to the rigging and de-rigging complications. Also, I felt that there was a substantial de-stabilising effect when the boom and sails were supported aloft by the lazyjacks. (Also, in the event of a capsize, the lazyjacks have to be released - another complication!).

Even if I reverted to the full rig again I don't think I would use my original lazyjack scheme. I would simply have a topping lift.

Bergen_Guy · 3 Feb 2022 3:04 pm

And while we are on the subject of possible modifications - I have been sketching out a possible cockpit cover / sprayhood type affair. I would imagine having it connected to the cockpit coaming with those little twist head catches , and have the thing supported by a frame or two - probably tent pole stuff, or maybe bent metal tube.

MartinC · 3 Feb 2022 6:31 pm

Nice idea! Unfortunately it wouldn't work for those of us with the Hobie Drive.
You would need to be sure that you don't need to lift the daggerboard!

spclark · 4 Feb 2022 1:11 pm

Nice seeing you out amongst other like-minded folks in the water, with your Waterlust and the new ama kit deployed Guy!

I've yet to get enough hull speed up to warrant much of any kind of deflector. Fond memories of water coming in over the coaming on that 14' scow I built & sailed half a century ago. It was heavy enough that when it heeled over in a gust it'd nearly put a gunwale under so the 4" V-shaped coaming was a real help avoiding too much water coming in... what did once in awhile motivated the addition of a pair of Elvstrom bailers either side of her keel after I ripped out the original cockpit floor to gain a few more inches so as to get a little deeper in cockpit.

Something similar may be enough on a Waterlust, depending on local conditions. 3-4" high, bent ply maybe 1/4"/6mm thick fastened to what passes for the original coaming? Which to me is more of a deck stiffener really. Whatever'd be added needs to accommodate rigging of course.

Chuck · 13 Feb 2022 1:00 am

Waterlusters-

With winter here, I am planning on doing some repairs to the paint job on the hull. I have several dents of various sizes, with some going into the wood, and others going through either the top coat, or some through the primer, too. Have any of you found advice on how to deal with repairs to several layers of paint? Ie, how to feather a new primer coat into surrounding layers of topcoat, etc?

Trying to figure out the standard way for repairing hull damage of varying intensity...

-Chuck

spclark · 13 Feb 2022 3:10 am

Facing similar repairs before coming season.

Seems recommended typical procedure (WoodenBoat and CLC forums as sources) is to scrape / sand back to undamaged epoxy, or to bare wood if epoxy / fiberglass is also damaged, then add new materials to protect underlying wood.

Also recommended is to avoid primers which in most cases isn't really necessary if underlying epoxy's prepared properly for painting. Seems primers aren't necessary and if not removed to a degree approaching 100% they can cause more trouble than benefit. Talc being the #1 filler component, it absorbs water and makes for fairly fragile top coat durability.

These things aren't furniture after all so signs of usage ought not be unsettling. More important is to maintain the integrity of the structure, while also paying attention to doing minor cosmetic repairs when possible.

I see CLC is advertising their return to the annual Canoecopia next month (kinda) near me. I may try to get down to Madison for a day, would like to put a face to some of the names I've had contact with since purchasing my Waterlust kit 5+ years ago.

Last edited by spclark (13 Feb 2022 3:11 am)

Chuck · 13 Feb 2022 6:44 pm

For those that have built the outrigger kit:

I've just purchased the kit and and am looking at the suggestions for the hardware that holds the amas to the aka (5/16 star knob, etc). Is this a good place for a carriage bolt? Otherwise I see the need for a screwdriver or wrench to hold the bolt while tightening the star knobs (which sounds like an invitation to drop tools in the water...)

-Chuck

Last edited by Chuck (13 Feb 2022 6:45 pm)

spclark · 13 Feb 2022 7:09 pm

I wondered about this also Chuck, decided that when the time comes to buy hardware I'd go the carriage bolt route for that simple reason alone. Most pan heads I've encountered are typically Phillips head now, not my favorite. You can find Allen-head cap screws & the weight of the heads ought not be much more; TORX head maybe by remote sourcing? Both need a tool.

Still need fender washers but there's no reason one with a smaller hole couldn't be used on the bottom once a square hole's made init to take the square shank under bolt head. Maybe even secure 'em to the ama's deck tabs with a couple of flat head stainless steel sheet metal screws, lessen the chance they'd disappear at an inopportune moment? Bring a couple of spare bolts too, maybe even a couple star knobs as well. They're not expensive compared to the time lost if one goes walkabout.

Bergen_Guy · 21 Feb 2022 5:23 pm

Just a quick update on some latest additions. I am feeling spring is soon close at hand and I want to be ready. I have made a rest to elevate the seat to a good paddling height, with some slats that go between the longitudinal stringers. I also sewed up a little bag like thing to keep stuff tidy in the front of the cockpit. There is also a compass now in place. Things are looking up!

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (21 Feb 2022 6:50 pm)

spclark · 21 Feb 2022 6:12 pm

Things are looking sideways on my end Guy! (I'll turn 'em upright, e-mail to you for reposting if you want!)

You like the kayak paddle? I have a loaner canoe one my friend handed me last year at the first launching, wondered whether two blades on a single shaft'd be a useful tool getting about from/back to the pier launchsites.

Careful with the seat riser too! You're raising your CG when you do that, I realized how much that will affect roll moment when I viewed the video of my inadvertent capsize. I'm looking to lower my seat, maybe even right down onto the cockpit floor eventually.

Bergen_Guy · 21 Feb 2022 7:07 pm

Thanks for fixing the photos SP. Ah! This will be a big improvement in stability for me, up to now I have sat up on the aft deck for paddling, and that doesn’t do much for stability. I do like the twin paddle though - that was what we used on the tour two summers ago to propel the boat, laden with camping gear and two kids as well as myself. We certainly didn’t have stability issues with that load, but it’s also not so quick when a head wind gets up. For sailing I do have the seat as low as I can get it, and I won’t be moving it higher for that.

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (21 Feb 2022 7:07 pm)

#926 28 Jan 2022 11:33 am

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