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#901 3 Oct 2021 2:04 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 328

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Good knowing these boats are capable of lengthy excursions when in capable hands! Thanks for posting that Chuck!

I'm noting from that pic that your main's downhaul is farther forward than mine's ever been. Is that 'cause you've got main mast in the mid-step for purposes of adding a jib? Or did you manage your ten-mile sojourn rigged that way? I'd have to think that'd have major effect on pointing, hefty weather helm with canvas set aft.

TWO aboard? What's the combined weight of helmsman and crew? Your experience (and Jeff's earlier in the Florida 120) reinforces my thinking that these boats perform better with some weight aboard rather than when sailed 'light' by solo occupant.

(What app you using for tracking BTW?)

Weather's turning here, winds have been very light the last two months. I may yet get a chance to get my Waterlust out again day after tomorrow with some luck; may be last opportunity. Better than ending my first season with that elegant capsize early last month....

Have plans for ama kit laid out on ply in basement, awaiting pouncing wheel (arrives tomorrow) to transfer lines to ply before cutting out parts. May pre-coat ply before this step; I found it easier to get fiberglass smoothly coated when ply's got a seal-coat.

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#902 3 Oct 2021 2:24 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Guy for the leads on other jib & lug yawls.  Those are some very nice boats!  Following further I also came across the Vivier Mesker, which has a jib without bowsprit rigged how I might try a first attempt on the Waterlust (without bowsprit).

Having read the Storer article on the shape of the foils, I tried to spend some time on the the proper shape, plotting out the equations for a good airfoil and making a template that I could hold to the work while I was shaping the curve.  But, whether my effort was any good and achieved some improvement is another question. (There is something about all those shavings coming off so nicely that make a too-aggressive planing job a little bit too easy to come by)

SP- The photo I posted is of the rig in its potential configuration for flying a jib (main in the aft step, etc).  I deliberately moved the main far aft so it would clear the forestay, and hopefully help avoid fouling the jib.  Normally with the main in the forward step the boom is a lot farther forward and is similar to the recommended position.

I luckily discovered that one of my colleagues at work was a collegiate sailor up in New Hampshire.  And, we are both 120#, so sailing two up in the Waterlust is doable with this crew.  He has no problem (in fact wants) to half crouch down on top of the daggerboard trunk and hike out to the maximum extent possible (made possible by your design with the cutouts in the longitudinals).  I was amused when he turned down my idea to build an appropriate seat in favor of better hiking straps.  We sailed yesterday with the two of us and my normal 40 liters of water ballast in the main compartment and had nearly neutral helm.  It was interesting in fact to adjust the mizzen while beating to watch the balance change a bit.

It's also the second capable crewman that helps makes the idea of a jib feasible in this boat.

For the tracking app I use an old iPhone app called "Motion-X GPS".  I've had it for years from the days when the early iPhones didn't have the best GPS support, and I wanted something like the old Garmin handhelds I used to have.  I think I have ~15 years of sailing tracks stored in that app, along with various hikes, mountain excursions, fish-finding expeditions and drives all the way up the west coast of the USA.  An interesting feature of that program is that you can set it to share your track with others on a shared channel, so other people can watch where you are going (& have been) in real time.

Last edited by Chuck (3 Oct 2021 2:48 pm)

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#903 3 Oct 2021 2:43 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 328

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

'K, thanks for the quick answers! 40 liters @ 2.2 #/l with my 175# alone'd be ~ 260 lbs'd leave me short by 60 lbs to equal what you were out with. So there's room for more 'ballast'... maybe in those drive trunk compartments, kinda like a crew straddling the 'board (glad your crew found my idea a useful contribution!)?

Seems that app's no longer available; have Strava on my iPhone, little used so far, need to explore it!

Got invited up to a Sea Scout promotion a couple of weeks ago, hosted by local Coast Guard Auxiliary chapter in La Crosse. Nora Jane came along for display, noted I need to maybe move main's downhaul a bit forward, get that evident crease pulled out. Used opportunity to adjust mizzen attachments so boom sets more like main's, keep it from fouling on lines just below:

Slack.jpg

Opportunity to meet a couple of very enthusiastic hands with knowledge of local sailing conditions so it was well worthwhile.

Last edited by spclark (3 Oct 2021 2:52 pm)

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#904 3 Oct 2021 3:11 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

SP- "GPS Tracks" looks like it also might be a good tracking app; I haven't tried it since Motion-X has been working for me (although your observation that it is no longer available explains why some of the functions aren't working anymore!)

Last edited by Chuck (3 Oct 2021 3:12 pm)

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#905 4 Oct 2021 5:41 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 246

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi SP.
I may be wrong, but I think you will find that your sail crease is due to the halyard position on the yard rather than the downhaul. Personally, I would try moving the halyard attachment point  so the peak is higher.

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#906 7 Oct 2021 12:50 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 328

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Entirely possible Martin, I'll try that first when under sail next, thanks!

Opportunities are growing fewer with time here this year. I did get out on a new (to me) lake an hour's drive east of me last Tuesday. Had planned to put up both sails but when I arrived the wind was so weak & finicky I didn't bother so I left it to the Mirage drive to move me over this water for a first look.

Had a GoPro mounted on bow but failed somehow to get it into record mode but my iPhone safely stowed in the forward compartment had Strava taking notes on GPS positioning so there's that -

White_Mound.jpg

1005track.jpg

Also took time to fill those two drive-trunk compartments before setting out, noted she then set about half an inch lower in the water (nylon bushings on Mirage drive axle almost fully underwater) than when just myself aboard. Need to look into container(s) for securely holding water ballast in the between-mast-pocket stowage for the future.

All in all a pleasant ninety minutes outing. Would have stayed out longer but for the clouds putting a chill into the otherwise 20° C air temp while out there. May yet get a chance or two soon, maybe with sail or two for this season's finale.

Looking forward too to starting ama kit build from plans this w/e.

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#907 13 Oct 2021 1:49 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 285

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

https://youtu.be/gDz-rf0317U shows a few capsize and recovery attempts of a few small sail and oar boats. The last being a skerry raid.

The righting attempts with the skerry raid may look familiar to many of us… interesting that it’s not just the Waterlust that seems to lack stability when full of water. I often think of the skerry raid as the next step up from the waterlust in being a similarly small light craft, a bit beamier and a slightly different shape.

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#908 14 Oct 2021 1:45 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 328

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Bergen_Guy wrote:

Interesting that it’s not just the Waterlust that seems to lack stability when full of water.

Um, no. It's hardly unique in that aspect.

In fact in one of those books you so kindly sent me Guy there's a passage describing exactly the scenario I experienced last month:

"In the first place, like other boats of small displacement, a canoe tends to roll when before the wind. This pendulum movement increases to such an extent that the canoe either rolls over or the boom end dips in to the water, when it may act as a fulcrum of a lever, and, given an untimely puff, over the boat goes." Published in 1893, just as the Columbian Exposition was finishing it's second year in Chicago, it's just as true today as it was back then.

The tendency of a long, narrow craft having a relatively semi-circular cross-section lends itself to this rolling moment, whether from wind as in the above-described circumstance or when swamped and filled with water. Why I waited that afternoon for the bilge pump to eject enough of the lake water my canoe had taken aboard before I attempted to get back into it. Also why I felt it was A Good Idea to strike both sails so as not to suffer further indignity with them coming over back on top of me during my re-boarding attempt.

This design is a thoroughbred I'm convinced. Very well thought out, with an experienced hand at the sheets & tiller I'm sure it's capable of exciting performances.

My hope is that, with the addition of the amas accessory next season, I can gain more experience with it w/o too many more dunkings causing unexpected breaks in what otherwise would be delightful afternoons aboard.

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#909 28 Oct 2021 12:08 am

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Greetings-

Just thought I'd post some photos from some nice sails I had a couple of weeks ago.

Hope all is well!

IMG_8872.jpg
Running home with crewman trimming.  Top speed was about 6.0 knots beating upwind in 9 knots of breeze with one reef in the main.  Next time I think I would sail with unreefed main in this wind range (with agile crewman able to quickly dump the main)
IMG_8863.jpg
Practice beaching run for a lunch break
IMG_8875.png
Trip into the Tennessee River and back (beating against the current is perhaps not the best way to make forward progress!)


  Best,

     -Chuck

Last edited by Chuck (28 Oct 2021 12:27 am)

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#910 28 Oct 2021 3:19 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 328

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

NICE Chuck, thanks! Very encouraging!

I went along a week ago last Sunday with some local sailing addicts for their last 'regatta' this season.

Friends_Along.jpg

Venue was another new lake for me, Castle Rock a little over an hour from where I live:

Castle_Rock.jpg

Given that this was a last-minute opportunity I chose to play it safe, went out under Mirage pedal-power with the drive trunk compartments flooded. Spent about 90 minutes mostly staying out of the few motorboat wakes and the gusts that would come in across the widest expanse I've attempted yet:

CastleRock_path.jpg

Weather was wonderful for so late in October in these parts: 74°F (22°C I think) and breezier than I was willing to risk under sail for my last trip out.

And the water was chilly... which I learned later after getting a text from one of the others who'd been there. They capsized coming back to the ramp to haul out. No harm done to crew or craft and their boat was certainly better able to handle the conditions than I can claim.

Last weekend I started on getting out the parts for my ama package. Putting tio good use the experience I gained doing the kit it'll get added to before next season. Looking forward to next year & more adventures afloat!

Last edited by spclark (28 Oct 2021 3:29 am)

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#911 18 Nov 2021 4:59 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi All-

I was thinking about purchasing the ama/aka option for the Warterlust as a winter project.

However, I keep wondering: How do you launch a boat like this with the outriggers attached?  I usually launch from a standard boat ramp where cars launch boats from trailers, then tie the boat to a nearby dock.  On first glance both of those operations (launching from a trailer and tieing up to a dock) sound difficult or impossible.

Any thoughts?  Is the answer to try to attach the outriggers once you are already out on the water??

This would all be much easier if I had a nice beach to launch from ...

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#912 18 Nov 2021 5:10 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 285

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Ha ha! That is a really good question. My first launch was from a beach. Easy as anything. A few weeks later I found myself in more ‘refined’ company launching from a pontoon ramp at a sailing club. This was not easy at all. First off you need a wide spot to rig the boat, which fortunately I had. Once afloat, the puzzlement continued. Again I was lucky in that I had an ‘end’ of pontoon close by and was able to get the front of the boat stick ‘out’ and still have the after part of the hull ‘alongside’ the pontoon for easy entry.  If neither of these options had been there I think I could have been a bit stuck.

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#913 18 Nov 2021 5:28 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 328

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I’m challenged by launch sites pretty much all with piers, either fixed or floating. So with the ama kit in progress I’m thinking the same questions.

Before Dillon & CLC came up with their package I commissioned Mike Waters to come up with a concept for something based on his experience with multi-hull designs. CLC offers his W17 so they have some kind of history. What he arrived at had longer amas set closer in, and paired akas that fold so the kit can be left on board yet reduces width for storage as well as launching.

I may try to devolve a folding aka concept using CLC’s amas once I’m farther along but in the mean time I’ll watch this space closely!

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#914 18 Nov 2021 6:04 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I wonder if our intrepid Texan colleague has had any thoughts on this question...

Last edited by Chuck (18 Nov 2021 6:08 pm)

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#915 18 Nov 2021 7:49 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 328

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Jeff found them easy to deal with for beach-launchings in the Florida 120 earlier this year. Needed help hauling his loaded rig up from the strand due to be what he’d been carrying but that’s a side issue.

Meanwhile I’m at the filleting stage: done end & bottom seams this week, outside lap fillets this w/e:

56F3CD78-9D09-4DFC-8BFC-68D1A56A4233.jpg

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#916 Today 2:30 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 328

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Lit up & with namesake character watching for cats, Nora Jane & I are about to take our place in an annual event of sorts in my community, their Twinklefest Parade:

340ACB67-8E69-4CF2-BDAC-99ADECDB5000.jpg

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