Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Chuck · 25 Jun 2021 9:19 pm

Apparently Facebook is good at catching unawares Waterlusters:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/345228505841660/

(That was the good tack)

Last edited by Chuck (25 Jun 2021 9:29 pm)

spclark · 25 Jun 2021 10:27 pm

Nope, behind F’book’s ‘accountwall’ which I won’t pass through.

Hopefully someone will do a screen grab & post that here.

Chuck · 26 Jun 2021 3:59 am

Chuck · 26 Jun 2021 5:46 am

Some Waterlust rigging and comments:

The blocks for the mizzen sheet. The sheet is 4mm polypropylene line (which is supposed to stretch less than nylon). The mizzen sheet doesn't get played like the main, so the smaller line diameter is not an issue in the hand. I love these series 20 lashing blocks from Ronstan, and they work really well with these small snap shackles pretty much everywhere on my boat. The snap shackles make it really easy to rig and unrig the boat, and easily store the rigging and hardware in a small bag.

That's a Klemheist lashing holding the mizzen sheet to the boom. The downside of these lashings with the Prussik knot usually suggested in rigging guides I've seen is that the place where the shackle attaches to the lashing just barely sticks out of the lashing (to keep things compact so they will fit), and the the lashing easily becomes undone when the shackle is not in it. I thought the Klemheist might work better than the Prussik, but it doesn't. I now think just a loop tied in the middle of the lashing is probably best (like I've done with the mizzen downhaul).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XF … UTF8&psc=1

Dumb sheave at the top of the mainmast. Halyard is 4mm spectra. The first use of the sheave started the line digging through the varnish, and there is a lot of friction. I am considering opening up the hole and rounding it over with a 3/8" roundover bit in the router as suggested on one of the CLC pages (trying to avoid hardware hanging on this spar).

The mizzen downhaul. Again, 4mm spectra with the 20mm Ronstan block -- on the mizzen halyard as well. The padeyes are the smallest ones from Harken (cheap); the bigger Racelite ones at Duckworks had the strap width too large to interact correctly with any of the small shackles I was trying to use them with. Also, there is just not enough room under the mizzen boom for a 2:1 downhaul with two blocks, and there isn't really enough tension in the line to need it anyway.

No fancy lashing here; just a loop in the middle of the line with a few round turns for each end around the spar and tied off with a clove hitch. I think I may put another coat of varnish on the spars but not sand it where the lashings go to make a nice rough surface for them to hold well once I figure out exactly where I want the lashings to be along the spars. Although I think this lashing may disappear in favor of directly tieing the downhaul to the boom with a buntline hitch.

Rigging on the mainmast. 5/16" mainsheet, with becket block from Lewmar on top (cheapest I could find to fit this line size), and ratcheting fiddle block mounted on the top of the daggerboard trunk. This system works well. The halyard and downhaul are again 4mm spectra with the 20mm lashing blocks with the snap shackle into a padeye on the deck at the base of the mast. You can also see the arrangement of all the fittings on the boom (except the outhaul cleat on the other side). All the cam cleats on the deck (halyard and downhaul) are the smallest from Nautos, with the fairlead for the cleat purchased as well. I upgraded the halyard cleat from a horn to the cam cleat to enable lowering the main rapidly if necessary. Also, all the horn cleats tend to snag lines, especially the reefing lines when the main is resting on the deck.

The blue tape for now serves as reference points, mostly to mark where the sail plan says the masts should hits the spars. In this photo, the blue tape on the boom shows where the rear of the cockpit hits the spar when mounted in the aft mast step, necessary for figuring placements of all the hardware on the boom reachable from inside the cockpit. I didn't realize I needed to do this before putting on the reefing line cleats, and had to move them so I could reach them easily from the cockpit.

A photo showing the outhaul, with the Velcro strap (Home Depot) holding the clew to the boom.

Detail with the outhaul, showing the 4:1 tackle. The outhaul is clipped to the clew grommet with another one of the small snap shackles; however, the grommet is set too far from the edge of the sail for the small shackle to hold, so I had to cut away a tiny bit of sail (the photos don't show this) to get the small shackle to fit so I didn't have to go to the bigger (and much heavier) shackle size. The silver piece in the outhaul rigging is a Ronstan Shock Block, a really cool little sheaveless block which works perfectly here. I think I will also rig one to replace the dumb sheave through the boom, and possibly for the halyards at the tops of the mast, too. A 2:1 outhaul would probably be fine instead of the 4:1 outhaul shown here, but this is easier dealing with the friction through the boom. One needs to check the run of the Shock Block as the outhaul is moved through its extremes (like for clipping the clew of the reefed sail), and make sure the clam cleat is placed far enough forward on the boom; this arrangement just barely works with the 4:1 outhaul.

I think if I was starting from scratch, I'd replace as many of those lovely 20mm blocks with the even nicer Shock Blocks. Cheaper, lighter, smaller, and could attach to padeyes on the deck with a simple loop and lark's head knot. I would test one first, though, to see how they deal with friction in places like the halyard blocks on the deck.

The main downhaul, 3:1, with 4mm spectra line. This is I think an Allen fiddle block, the smallest I could find that wasn't chromed. I've been making attachments to the spars with lashings everywhere to try to keep hardware off the spars and away from rolled up sails on the boom. I like this downhaul. If you look carefully, you can see that the small 20mm block can be tied with a becket like in this 3:1 block system.

Mizzen halyard and downhaul rigging and cleats.

Rigged mizzen.

Some hardware from left to right: rudder downhaul cleat (this model releases if the rudder hits an obstruction), rudder uphaul cleat (these cleats need 4mm line, but 4mm is too thick for how my rudder tie-offs are working, so I run 3mm off the rudder, tied to 4mm for the cleat). Lastly, the fairlead for the mizzen sheet, going to a cam cleat mounted along the middle of the cockpit, which I intend to move back to the aft coaming to make it less likely to be painfully sat upon! (learned the hard way, of course)

I also need to add a fairlead to the downhaul cleat or just tie the ends of the lines together (the uphaul cleat has a built-in fairlead holding the line); I've had the line fell out of the cleat and go overboard, leading to some hairy moments as I had to struggle to fetch it back with the end of the canoe paddle...

Last edited by Chuck (27 Jun 2021 4:39 pm)

spclark · 26 Jun 2021 11:32 am

Great detailing Chuck! Thanks so much!

Nice surprise reading upon getting up this AM, another being the rain we’re getting today FINALLY! Glad I have a lot of inside work to do!

Chuck · 26 Jun 2021 5:35 pm

SP, Glad to help, especially given all the inspiration and good advice I have gotten from all you guys!

A question: how do all of you like to heave to in this boat? It'd be nice to stop occasionally to take a drink of water, etc...

Last edited by Chuck (26 Jun 2021 7:50 pm)

MartinC · 27 Jun 2021 6:55 am

Heaving to:- It depends really how much wind there is. In a lot of wind you can't really do it (and you have to lower or scandalise both sails), but what works for me most of the time is letting the mainsail flap (or lower), tightening the mizzen sheet, restraining the tiller in the straight ahead position and give yourself a little forward motion with the Hobie Drive.

spclark · 27 Jun 2021 1:22 pm

So MartinC you leave your Mirage drive in place when sailing?

I just finished installing my Mirage drive yesterday, with the two 3/4" square blocks the drive ends rest upon. Looking at the height of the pedals I have to wonder if they'd interfere at all with lines for sail control? Maybe more if main mast is in rear step rather than the forward one. Also, the fins below would add some to the daggerboard's effect on windage.

Rained most all of yesterday (2-1/2" total and we needed every bit!) so sails unbagged. Today's forecast holds no mention of rain so comparing spar blank length to sail dimensions is planned, among other small details for completing hull's hardware installation.

MartinC · 27 Jun 2021 2:49 pm

Yes. Very much so. I use the Mirage drive in conjuction with sailing. It is a technique completely new to me, but it works extremely well as they are complimentary, as long as you are sitting in the pedalling position rather than up on the deck. This is why the extra ballast is so important to me.

When I need a bit of power, perhaps to go about or to hold her into the wind (as above), or if the wind drops or heads and I don't feeel like tacking, I give a little peddle. It is also good for improving the upwind performance as by pedaling you can sail significantly closer to the wind. The fins below don't have any adverse effect on performance even though they tend to adopt an open position when left to their own devices.

The only line which gets close to the pedals is the main sheet (for which I have a sheeve on the foredeck just beyond the aft mast position .. I don't use the aft mast position), but it is easy to avoid snagging this on the pedals.

I know it is not at all a 'traditional' way of sailing, but I really like the extra flexibility the Mirage drive gives and it's very good leg exercise! Beats biking hands down!

spclark · 27 Jun 2021 10:56 pm

Tradition, schmadition... if it works, it's better than if'n it doesn't! Glad to learn a Mirage plus sail(s) is greater than the sum of the parts.

Further work today on fitting my Mirage proves the pedals really aren't high enough set on #4 - about as high as I think I'd want to put them - to interfere with the main sheet.

Anyway, swept twigs & stones off driveway, then laid out my sail set with spar blanks a'top:

- just to verify I have 'enough' wood on the ends to make everything to the proper lengths needed.

(And yes I'm seeing now I have the masts too far to the rear! Forgot these aren't Bermudas, the longest side isn't in front!)

Just might untie those reef lines, use a tip I got from Todd Bradshaw's book on Canoe Rigs to stain 'em to a more 'traditional' look before use. Be the only white bits once everything's together if you can ignore the two inspection ports on deck.

Chuck · 28 Jun 2021 4:11 am

I went out sailing for the 4th time this evening. Winds were 4-6 knots, and I sailed with unreefed main.

I experimented with 'heaving to' and found how nice it is to have a mizzen sail! I am newly finding out by experience what the situation is like at the public boat ramps here on Lake Guntersville, and learned that at sunset all the powerboats come from nowhere wanting to take out at the same time. Of course, as a sailboat without motor (or trailer!) I am a lot slower than they are to take out and had to wait for 6 boats before there was room at the pier. I took down the main, sheeted in the mizzen, and gave a bit of a paddle now and then to maintain position while waiting for a chance to get in -- very convenient. Being able to paddle this boat so easily is a very nice thing, too! (although I definitely need to do some work to modify the seat to get it much higher than it is when sitting on the cockpit sole).

There is something weird going on with the bad tack, and there is a lot of lee helm (the rudder almost doesn't work to point me closer to the wind than a beam reach). I tried moving myself forward and aft to move the center of effort around, but it was hard to tell what effect that had. There wasn't a lot of wind when I did this experiment, so maybe that has something to do with this difficulty? I think I am doing a decent job in keeping the position of the sails close to the sail plan (eg, see photo above), so I am not quite sure what is going on yet.

A question: what sort of tacking angles are you guys able to achieve? In what winds? How close is your boom to amidships when close hauled?

I certainly do get a lot of attention in this boat, too, which is interesting...

Last edited by Chuck (28 Jun 2021 5:24 am)

MartinC · 28 Jun 2021 6:21 am

Hi Chuck.
Lee helm would imply that you have too much mainsail forward of the mast, but this principle would apply to both tacks! Try bringing the sail back a bit by adjusting the halyard position on the yard and see what happens.
I can't help you with tacking angles I'm afraid, as I have a different rig to you. Perhaps Guy can help with this.
All I would say is tightening up a rig like this too much when beating will stop her dead in the water. As with all gaffers/lug rigs, you are much better off sacrificing tacking angle for speed. You will also not heel as much, which, for a flat bottomed boat like this will considerably improve speed - and it will also be more comfortable!
Good luck!
Word of advice to you SP on the same subject. Rig your halyard fixing in such a way that you can easily adjust it later. The fixing point in the manual is really only a guide.

spclark · 28 Jun 2021 10:36 am

Right MartinC, with all I’ve read about luggers that seems to be an axiom that’s hard to ignore. Getting everything set ‘just right’ for decent performance under varying conditions can be a challenge! Getting to optimum’s gonna take time.

Chuck you’re comment on seat height both myself and Jeff agree with. In fact there’s a bit in CLC’s description suggesting those longitudinal frames were intended to serve as the support for a seat yet in their photos it sits on the bottom? Curious but actual usage proves having seat higher works better. Jeff added sides to his seat so it’s on the floor in use but puts him much higher than when stock:

I’m working out a similar arrangement with extensions out from the seat’s sides that rest upon those frame caps I added. And, in both cases, some means to adjust seat position fore/aft for efficiency and comfort. That cord shown is Jeff’s solution for location, the loops on each side clip onto carabiners tethered to the frames.

Last edited by spclark (28 Jun 2021 1:45 pm)

Chuck · 28 Jun 2021 2:24 pm

Hi SP -- Yes, I am planning on doing nearly the same thing Jeff did (with your idea to put the seat on the longitudinals). Maybe I'll do something simple first, and then figure out something more adjustable later...

On tacking angles: I noticed that on my first two outings (with an extra adult in the cockpit) I was able to achieve better tacking angles, but still only about 110 degrees looking at the GPS track (maybe I am too used to seeing nice 90 angles from my time on Bermuda rigs).

Aother thing I noticed from the photo taken of my boat sailing close hauled (myself only) is that the hull is far out of the water and you can almost see the bottom, even though it is not heeled over much. And, I remember hearing the waves slap on the bottom (not the sides). So, I think I might try a decent amount of ballast in a forward compartment as well as moving the sails aft. Maybe I can rig up some water tanks that I can fill/drain electrically (like submarine tanks?) And, maybe a flat-topped marconi rig (with lug mizzen) is in the future for this boat...

One problem is that rigging/ derigging the boat is starting to take a fair amount of time and work! An hour to put it up top and tie it down, 45 min to drive one way, an hour to take it down and launch, and then the reverse makes it about 5 hours of additional time for 1-2 hours of sailing -- not a very good ratio. Adding and removing a lot of ballast is not going to make that any easier, especially with busy boat ramps and people waiting around while I mess with things. I really wanted to cartop this boat, but I think a trailer is becoming more and more necessary (given that, I would have built a bigger boat!)

Last edited by Chuck (28 Jun 2021 2:30 pm)

spclark · 28 Jun 2021 3:43 pm

I'd been comparing pics of Jeff's trim and yours, came to same conclusion: you're higher in the water, and at the bow that will affect helm pretty quickly. I keep going back to the expedition part of this design's name, thinking it works better with only 2-1/2 panels showing rather than 3+.

Time will tell, as will more experience (and mine own at that!) gained then reported here.

The set-up I guess is a given, seeing as how with the sail rig there's a lot of stuff to get attached before launch. A single sail might help, but losing mizzen leaves some flexibility out of the plan. Leaving both off and just using a Mirage for propulsion is what intrigued me first off back in '16, a quick way to get out onto the water if there's no time for sails or conditions don't warrant them.

Last edited by spclark (28 Jun 2021 3:50 pm)

Chuck · 28 Jun 2021 8:57 pm

Thanks for that comparison, SP -- I was looking for a photo like that from Jeff!

Martin, do you have a link you could share for the electric pump you use for bailing?

spclark · 28 Jun 2021 10:37 pm

Here's a link to what I think Martin's using, from a UK source:

650GPH bilge pump

Then a link to a document Jeff turned me on to for a DIY self-contained pump "box" including how to make it solar-rechargeable if you would like that capability:

Bialer-Build #11

(Let me know if this works for you! I don't typically share stuff I save to my iCloud account's storage so this is new ground for me.)

I built a pump system myself in about an hour after receiving all the various bits I'd ordered or sourced locally. Testing it in the basement utility sink proved it's surprisingly capable of moving a lot of water at a rapid pace! I'll grab a couple of pics of the assembly for posting in a bit.

Martin's pump can be sourced here in the US as can all the parts in the Bialer Bailer unit.

Last edited by spclark (28 Jun 2021 10:40 pm)

Chuck · 29 Jun 2021 5:33 pm

Thanks, SP.

Does anyone have any good ideas for attaching tie-down loops to the floor of the boat? I'd like to tie down some ballast so it doesn't move around if heeled over a lot or capsized...

Last edited by Chuck (29 Jun 2021 5:33 pm)

Bergen_Guy · 30 Jun 2021 10:44 am

What great progress, achievements and photos!

I am not sure on tie down loops - I tie stuff to the 'drain holes' in the longitudinal stringer, but haven't actually attached any eyes or anything directly to the floor of the boat. I would tend away from making holes in the hull itself, although I am sure in practice it's no problem once everything is filled with resin! I simply make a loop of rope and tie things to that. For the fenders that I have up under the side decks, those are attached to small eyes screwed into the shear clamp. When I tie in water tanks, I have them tied to these drain holes in the stringers.

Great to see your boat under sail Chuck! She is looking great. I am interested in your comments about lee helm, I have not experienced that, and have generally found the rig well balanced so far, and haven't got into any odd situations with the rig 'taking over' directional control. I too am now a big fan of the yawl rig - the mizzen on it's own is such a life saver when you want to relax a bit, kill time, do something else important, but still know what the boat is going to do (or not do!).

As for pointing, I have not observed any difference between the 'good' and 'bad' tacks - and was under the impression that some experienced sailors of balanced lug boats actually find the more close winded on the 'bad' tack than the 'good' one. I am sure this depends a lot on the rig and exactly how it is set up. The only thing that's clear is that it is easy to over-sheet the rig, and then the whole thing will stop, even though the sail appears to be full. I don't think, even when beating that the tip of the boom is ever actually inboard of the lee rail. I will check properly and let you know next time I manage to get out for a sail.

I hope summer is going well for you all.

Guy

Chuck · 30 Jun 2021 8:34 pm

I finally broke down and ordered a SUT 220 trailer. All the time it was taking putting the boat up and down on the car, with complicated tie-downs and elaborate dances with ladders (and especially the two-wheeled cart) were taking a very long time and cut directly into sailing time. Now with the newly discerned need for ballast in my boat, more procedures and more mass just pushed the situation over the top. (Not to mention the time when the boat literally got pushed over the top accidentally and landed with a loud thud on the ground after leaving a large blue streak down the side of the car...)

My back is breathing a sigh of relief. I literally saw stars the last time I shoved that boat up there...

Last edited by Chuck (3 Jul 2021 7:59 pm)

spclark · 30 Jun 2021 9:16 pm

Did the same but well before any attempt at car-topping onto my MINI. If you didn’t order the 12” wheels upgrade I strongly suggest you consider that.

8’s are really tiny wheels for road speeds. I ended up buying 12” aftermarket wheels fitted with 12” radials which I think will serve me, and my canoe, far longer and much more kindly than the stock 8’s.

Convenient aspect of having the axle higher is being able to work on the canoe while it’s on the trailer more comfortably. And I can store stuff between the wheels ‘cause of the extra clearance.

At my age, and in that I drive what many would consider an ultra-compact vehicle, this Waterlust getting car-topped just isn’t an appealing prospect.

Last edited by spclark (30 Jun 2021 9:24 pm)

Chuck · 30 Jun 2021 11:23 pm

SP -- I was wondering exactly the same thing about the 8" wheels -- do you have the link to where you found your aftermarket 12" wheels??

Thanks!

Last edited by Chuck (30 Jun 2021 11:29 pm)

spclark · 1 Jul 2021 11:56 am

Chuck if you've just ordered your 220-S you may be able to get the wheels upgraded to 12" & save some $$. Doing what I did will leave you with 8" wheels & tires that might be hard to find a buyer for....

I first explored sourcing 12” wheels & tires from Trailex about this time last year. At the height of the pandemic hysteria they told me they were experiencing ‘issues’ with stuff being shipped from China so at that time their ability to supply upgrade stuff was minimal. Understand too that what they sell is the same product but in a larger size for both wheels and tires.

When I was looking for a trailer hitch and wiring adapter for my MINI Clubman last year I found e-trailer.com who could supply both. I was quite pleased with what I bought from them so looking there first for tires & wheels brought me this selection:

https://www.etrailer.com/s.aspx?qry=Tra … _on_4_Inch

The nature of shopping-by-internet being what it is I kept looking but didn’t meet with much success until I asked a rep at TireRack what they could supply. His response was nothing much, but suggested I look at an outfit he’d dealt with personally, easternmarine.com.

A salesman there sent a link for both galvanized steel and aluminum 12” rims mounted with either bias or radials he said they didn’t stock but could have drop-shipped from their supplier. So I found a combo I thought reasonably priced & ordered three - one as a spare.

Two weeks later I received three heavy wheel & tire units. Somehow the supplier got the order scrambled, sent chromed steel wheels mounted with nice 145mm radials when I’d ordered aluminum wheels. So I got a credit back from easternmarine for the overcharge and kept what they’d had sent. If I were expecting salt-water exposure I would have preferred the aluminum wheels I'd ordered. In that my trailer will never see the road salt they use here in winter the steel wheels ought to last a long time.

These tires appear to be of a much higher level of quality than what Trailex uses, but being radials at a price point higher than what they charge for their 12” upgrade set. The e-trailer selection includes one set of bias tires on steel wheels for about the same money as Trailex wants for their 12"-ers sold separately; radials on aluminum inevitably get priced higher.

My local Ford dealer expressed that they’d never balanced trailer wheels before but offered to try to do mine on their equipment for $10/ wheel. They did a nice job.

Last edited by spclark (1 Jul 2021 12:05 pm)

Chuck · 1 Jul 2021 5:49 pm

SP, your information is timely and incredibly helpful. As you know, finding outdoor equipment online is next to impossible because of the pandemic (the wait for a SUT-220 from CLC is 5 months, and since they drop ship, means that Trailex themselves are behind). I did find on eBay a kayak outfitter 3 hours from me that has three of them in stock, so I jumped without even checking what the wheel size was (but have since learned it is 8"). Being close enough to drive to (even on my way to Atlanta), means I can save some hefty shipping fees, too.

Looking at the website you mentioned, I am relieved to see that the sizes refer to wheel diameter, not wheel+tire diameter as I initially thought. (A 8" diameter tire+wheel for highway use sounds insane!) Lucky for me Alabama has no trailer registration requirements and if I claim Whimbrel is a canoe, I shouldn't have to register her, either.

Last edited by Chuck (1 Jul 2021 5:59 pm)

spclark · 1 Jul 2021 6:20 pm

Glad I could help.

My Waterlust overhangs the 220-S by about 42” so I’m adding a third brake/tail light that’ll plug into the wiring and hang off the lower gudgeon pin. Also added an LED amber marker light at the back of the trailer’s boat-carrying subframe on each side.

That way if I’m caught out after dark that back end way back there will be called out well… I hope.

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