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#701 19 Jun 2021 10:20 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I just measured the cartop weight of Whimbrel: 105 pounds (with deck plates, but no other removable fittings, no tarpaulin, mainsheet fiddle block included), using the pick up one end while standing on a bathroom scale method.

More than I expected!  given the CLC pages stating hull weight of 85#, 115# fitted out (which I take to be the displacement).

No wonder it is moderately painful getting it on top of the car...

Last edited by Chuck (19 Jun 2021 10:21 pm)

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#702 20 Jun 2021 12:51 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 330

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Yeah there’s some mass there. I want to get a better idea of what Nora Jane weighs once everything besides hardware’s on the hull. Yours is pretty close to what I came up with the last time I brought scale to the task.

There’s a formula for weighing a boat on trailer, involves some simple math. (Did I post it here earlier? Have to check….) But the one-end-on-scale works well enough as long as the far end is supported as close to that end as you can manage.

I have both rubrails epoxied on now, just finished epoxying in black locust plugs on port side after drilling out the holes where sheet metal screws had been securing it while the G-Flex cured for 24+ hours.

(Found a neat video on Youtube on how to make your own dowel rods or pegs from stock w/o buying anything much but maybe a drill bit or two. Worked superbly for making the 3/16” dia. dowel stock I needed for the 7/32” holes in rubrail.)

Don’t go hurting yourself muscling Whimbrel onto your transport. Set you back some from enjoying your new boat!

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#703 20 Jun 2021 1:29 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 330

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Guy, MartinC, you have a link to where that tiller lashing's explained?

Tiller-lashing.jpg

I've never been too 'into' knots but I can follow instructions pretty well with practice. That lashing seems particularly useful for that bit of connectivity; as I'm approaching the point where I attach tiller to cassette it's of interest to me.

Closest I've found so far is the 'icicle-hitch' shown here:

Icicle_hitch.jpg

- but it's not quite the same, izit!

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#704 20 Jun 2021 4:05 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

SP-

I've found the tiller lashing to be subtle.  So far I've just winged it, but there is room for improvement in my setup.  The interesting point is that the rudder yoke arms are not strictly perpendicular to the rudder pivot axis, so when the rudder is moved, the top surface of the arms becomes not parallel to the water, twisting a tight tiller in the hand.   Guy and Martin look like they have dealt with this by by rounding the end of the tiller (and adding some nice lanyard work), but I haven't quite conquered this yet.

I think Martin's solution for a tiller holder is quite smart.  I definitely need to add one -- there are too many things to manage in this tender boat at the same time, and being able to put the tiller down is key to allowing any other thing to happen.

Last edited by Chuck (20 Jun 2021 4:47 pm)

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#705 20 Jun 2021 4:20 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 247

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi SP.
Guy posted it some months ago but I am afraid I can't find it now. It is an excellent self-tightening solution and it isn't difficult.
1. You drill two holes in the tiller about 5" apart.
2. Tie a figure of eight knot at the end of a length of 10mm multicore (although any rope with a bit of stretch will do).
3. Pass the rope up through the hole (so the knot is on the underside of the tiller) and then down through the second hole (on the tiller end) and down through the hole in the rudder yoke.
4. Then tie one or two half hitches tight in the gap between the tiller and rudder yoke. This acts as the multidirectional hinge.
5. Finish off by tying two half hitches on the tiller under the loop (between the two holes).The loop keeps it captive as it tightens with use.
6. Not shown in the above photos, but I then tie another figure of eight knot  in the lose end so that it can't slip through.
7. Cut off any surplus rope. When you de-rig the rope can  remain threaded through the tiller so it doesn't get lost.

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#706 20 Jun 2021 4:29 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 247

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Yes. Chuck. I find the stainless steel 'broom handle' tiller holder works really well. If either you or SP can't get one over there, I can send you one of mine free of charge - I have run out of brooms to hang up and still have a couple left over!
It is a small point, but I agree with Chuck that there are just too many things  to concentrate on, especially when leaving or arriving at a berth and consequently the tiller always goes overboard.

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#707 20 Jun 2021 4:33 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi all-

I've had the boat out twice now, and it has been quite an adventure much different than I expected! (More to come later with photos, etc; I'm just about ready to head out for a third sail).

The main takeaway: This is a tender boat!  I didn't quite realize this despite all of Martin's and Guy's observations. Even out in only 6-9 knots, I found I needed to put in the double reef (probably the single would have sufficed, but I was a bit trepidatious at that point).

Second point: a tiller tender will be vital.  One can't adjust the sails, hold the sheet, etc, with a tiller in hand.  And, with a tender it will be much easier to set the tiller amidships and leave it there, often useful

- Even a 234cm kayak paddle was too short.  Canoe paddles definitely work better than double paddles, and a telescoping handle helps get the length right.  However, there is still dodging around the boom, so paddling has its issues.  Although, it was a lifesaver for bringing the boat through stays on some tacks a little too close to an active railroad bridge (another story).  With a canoe paddle, you can use a draw stroke to move the bow around, something you would have trouble with using a much longer double paddle.

- The Duckworks line was again a disappointment for the rudder up hauls and downhauls.  I used their cheap 3mm poly stuff, which turned out to  be too low quality and stretched too much.  I've found that my favorite general purpose line is the PMI utility cord (nylon) that REI sells, in seemingly all diameters.  Nice and tightly woven, with great hand.  I use the 3mm and 4mm stuff.  The 5mm is my bow and stern tie down line for cartopping.

- Again as Martin says, not too much is needed for rigging.  I had a 2:1 downhaul system worked up for the mizzen, but there is just not enough force there to make it necessary.  I just tie the dowhaul to the boom now and then through a tiny block with a padeye on the deck at the base of the mast.  I like the Ronstan 20mm orbit lashing blocks for most everything, tied close to a very small snap shackle, do they are easy to put on and off anywhere.  I've also discovered the Ronstan Shock Blocks, which look awesome, and I will be using these on the outhaul. (Amazing what one finds when you actually walk into a marine supply store as opposed to just browsing online.  When I was in DC, there were West Marine shops around, which we don't have in Alabama...)

- I initially rigged a 2:1 outhaul, but I think a 4:1 outhaul like in the Viola 14 rigging plan would be best.  I've rigged the main loose-footed so I can adjust the sail shape with the outhaul.  I was wondering if there would be too much boom bend for this,  but it looks like it will work -- more observation necessary.

- The dumb sheave system for halyards in the tops of masts and the outhaul in the end of the boom leaves a lot to be desired: even after only one outing, the lines have cut through the varnish and worn grooves in the spars.  I think I am going to rig the Shock Blocks as blocks at these places.

- I think I may go to fairleads on the deck instead of blocks for the halyards and downhauls

- I had originally planned lashing everywhere (attaching the halyard blocks to the spars, downhaul, etc, but these just move around too much on the spars (maybe I should leave the varnish rough here for more gripping power).  I do want to keep hardware off the spars to make them easy to carry and put in a bag, so right now I am planning fittings on the deck at the base of the spars (there are already fittings/cleats on the deck, so these don't significantly make thing worse on the deck)

- The mizzen is too low to the deck for all my fancy block systems, as I was getting chock-a-block on the 2:1 downhauls and mizzen sheets.  Solution: 1:1 downhaul, and maybe a 1:1 mizzen sheet, too.

- Line sizes: as Michael storer recommends: 4mm spectra seemingly everywhere.  I replaced the 6mm double braid mizzen sheet with 4mm poly line (and smaller blocks; soon to be fairleads?) Halyards, downhauls, too.  Only the main sheet is large at 5/16".  I wish the rudder yoke didn't have such large holes bored in the ends; even 1/4" line is too small to rig a stopper knot that will hold here.  I may epoxy them shut and then drill them out smaller.

- I think two tillers would definitely work better than one (like in the CLC videos).  The tiller running across the boat ends up being shorter than I would like.  In general, I would have added ~1.5 feet to the tillers.

- The rudder is loose in the cassette, as you guys mentioned.  I solved it with two large fender washers on either side of the rudder, inside the cassette (like SP).  The hanging 1/4-20 bolt was made just snug, and then a second nut put on to lock everything together

- The removable-pin two-gudgeon rudder hangers again scored a demerit when I promptly lost a pin in the murky water while de-rigging after the first sail

- The daggerboard is quite loose in the well, floating up about 6" when underway!  This I find more annoying than the loose rudder.    I am thinking about some shock cord, but am not quite sure where to attach it on the boat.  Or, I suppose lots of padding could be put in the daggerboard trunk to wedge it in.  How do you guys manage to keep the daggerboard snug in the right position?

- The cam cleats for the lines going to the main mast require fairleads (I tried to get by without them...).  The line coming from the mast base is too high, making it hard for the line to automatically fall into the cams.  I am going to try to implement the scheme outlined in the plans, with fairleads serving both mast step positions.  I haven't cut out the aft mast deck hole yet, but seeing how tender the boat is I have renewed interest in the cat rig -- have you guys tried it?

- I still haven't figured out the best place for the main sheet block -- I have the same system as in the CLC videos (ratcheting fiddle block on the boat to a becket block on the boom).  I have initially put the main block base right between the daggerboard and Mirage drive well, and it is working well there, but this is not a good solution if I ever get a mirage drive (which I am leaning toward more and more!) since the mainsheet will then get caught up in the mirage drive...

- The grooved coaming and tarpaulin kind of worked.  Photos to come.  The 13 hour drive from Alabama to DC and back was quite an adventure, but worked out well.  It was raining buckets up and down the east coast on the way back for hours, and I thank the deities that my jury-rigged tarp worked, otherwise I would have had hundreds of pounds of water in the boat, putting the roof rack in jeopardy, and with no good way to get it out (I shudder to think what would have happened had the tarp failed!)

Last edited by Chuck (20 Jun 2021 4:56 pm)

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#708 20 Jun 2021 4:43 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I think reefing is going to be a significant project for this boat.  I've found that it is very difficult to reef underway because you can't go to the front to tidy things.  The sail just bunches between the reefing line on either side of the sail, making it impossible to get the tack all the way down to the boom.  I would REALLY like to be able to reef underway to add a significant margin of safety, but this is going to be difficult.

Minor project on the extended horizon: Lazy jacks.  I haven't heard much on this topic here; what do you guys think?

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#709 20 Jun 2021 5:31 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 330

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Chuck what you're reporting reinforces what Guy and MartinC first expressed some number of posts back in this thread, as well as what Jeff in Texas found.

What'all motivated me to lobby Dillon & CLC for an ama+aka package they introduced early this year.

And yes Jeff did add lazyjacks, as I plan to also. Helps keep things tidy.

For experienced small-boat hands I think the design may still be a handful! Their confidence coming from other, similarly tender craft gives them an edge over folks who might not have as much sea-time under their belt.

As for the single mast? That's how I plan to start out, yes. Less to mind until I get more familiar with this design underway. One of its features that appealed to me when it was premiered back in '16 was the capability to mount the main mast & sail alone. Heck you could even hang the mizzen sail & spars off the main mast if it's really blowing!

As for in-store shopping vs. on-line? Struck a nerve it did!

Back in '72 when I was building that scow there was a West Marine store in Chicago I paid regular visits to. One wall was dedicated to sail boat hardware. I was in heaven! Could see and touch the stuff I knew I'd need to choose from for my project. I still have a few items I salvaged, intend to use them on this new endeavor. (One Saturday morning I stopped by for some turnbuckles & wire rope for standing rigging. I asked how long it'd take to have them swaged on, they invited me back into the 'shop' where I watched them use their pneumatic swager to fit up my stays!)

If you have your receipts for the stuff you bought, might you scan / image it/them and post 'em here? I'd like to have a look at what you're finding appropriate, and having their catalogue / SKU numbers will help a lot!

Last edited by spclark (20 Jun 2021 5:44 pm)

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#710 20 Jun 2021 5:49 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi SP -

I'm not sure I have receipts for all the rigging parts, but I know what they are.  Better yet, I can post photos and you can see how they are run and what they are, as well as observations on line lengths, etc (it hurts when you discover your spectra halyard is a few inches too short!)

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#711 20 Jun 2021 6:06 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 330

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Yah, pics're always welcome! Include something for scale please, like a tape measure or such!

Boy how prices have changed in 45 years! I've just come off West's sailboat hardware pages... yikes! What back then cost US $18, that very same item now runs US $116!!!

Duckworks seems to have a lot of the same items for less $$$.

And lines too short... why I bought long, just in case. Been there too, frustrating it is!

Last edited by spclark (20 Jun 2021 6:13 pm)

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#712 21 Jun 2021 6:17 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 247

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi Chuck.
1. Daggerboard:- When I had the original one I had a hole drilled either side of the casing and a piece of shock cord  with a knot in it each end which slipped over the 'horn' on the daggerboard. Now I have a steel one it stays down!
2.Lazyjacks:- I originally rigged mine with these and they do help with reefing and sail storage (as you don't risk dropping the whole thing over the side), however, they do considerably complicate the rig as there is a lot more rope to deal with. For this reason I dispensed with them.
3. Tenderness:- I sympathise! I realised that reefing underway is not practicable for me with the sort of sailing I do, so along with the  steel daggerboard, I bit the bullet and reduced the mainsail by half. This has had a dramatic effect and she now behaves beautifully. Instead of reefing, when the wind increases beyond about 15mph I drop the mizzen (which has a big effect), and it if gets up even more I will flood the two lockers either side of the Hobie drive well (I haven't had to do this yet ...but will keep you informed of results). Because the boat is so light and floats so high in the water relatively small changes have a big effect. I find that if I can resist hiking out in a gust, she is much more stable as my constant weight low down in the boat is much more effective than radical weight changes.

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#713 21 Jun 2021 1:03 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 330

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

MartinC what's that steel d'board you've made weigh?

"Because the boat is so light and floats so high in the water relatively small changes have a big effect."

I keep coming back to the full name CLC gave to this design, thinking it was designed to be used fairly heavily loaded as an expedition canoe. With a single occupant (little room for another!) and scant gear it's gonna be a tender thing under all that sail... the weight of your daggerboard ought to be an aid to stability!

"my constant weight low down in the boat is much more effective than radical weight changes."

Seat on floor is how Dillon's plans have it, puts weight lowest when using Mirage drive. I've yet to experience whether that's comfortable for me, have an idea to hang seat on adjustable risers rested on longitudinal frames to either side.

Once I get to the point I'm setting sail(s) I may add ballast to mine. Sandbags? Stowed in that forward storage compartment.

Added a small stainless steel nail between the rudder casette's cheeks yesterday, just above the rudder's notch where downhaul line exits. T'was a ringshank at the start so I filed away the rings then polished it with emory cloth where exposed. Ought to keep that line from getting jammed.

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#714 21 Jun 2021 1:56 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 247

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

8mm steel daggerboard approximately the same size and shape as the original weighs 14.5kgs. (I made a few holes in the top section to keep the above water level weight down).  It's about as much as you would want to lift when in the boat. As its cross section is substantially slimmer than the laminated ply one it must be more aqua-dynamic as well.
I am more attracted to water ballast than sandbags, as I like the idea of using it as and when required...and it stays where you put it.
Yes. I agree with you SP that the boat was designed to have weight in it. I have no problem with the design at all - I think it is a delightful little craft, and the beauty of it is that we  can all adjust it to suit our own type of sailing. I have come to the conclusion that I will probably not be going ahead with the amas/acas as these will make the boat too wide for the little rivers around here that I hope to explore.

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#715 21 Jun 2021 5:50 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Re, reefing:

IMG_8568D.jpg

This is my problem when reefing (ignore the temporary sheets to the boom).

I think the solution is to put the reefing cheek blocks slightly forward of the tack (so the lines clear the luff of the sail), and the reef line ties to the boom closer to the mast (ie, reverse the position of the reefing line dead ends and the cheek blocks).  Cheek blocks are on the side away from the mast, dead-ends (lashings to boom) more inboard on the side where the boom touches the mast.  That way, the sail has a place to go when reefing -- it can puff out on the side of the boom away from the mast.  With the current configuration, the lines trap it in place.

Of course, this would require a heftier boom right out to the tack end to support two cheek blocks (hard to do with my current tapered boom).  If I was building a new boom, that is how I would do it.IMG_8545.jpgIMG_8543.jpg

The photo with the cheek blocks is already out of date, as I have moved them forward from their original configuration shown here.  I think placing them forward even of the tack is good (but not with this boom).  The Harken micro cheek blocks are much better (smaller) than the 29mm ones that CLC sells.  I've found that the Harken blocks are generally inferior to the Ronstan ones, which I like best (eg, they turn the longest when you spin them), they look better, and are better quality.  However, Ronstan doesn't have cheek blocks this small.

The reefing line cleats are also original.  Problems: these clam cleats don't work well for this application (I wanted the low profile, and thought these leech line sail cleats would work, but the angles aren't right.)  I have also since moved the reefing cleats aft so they are more accessible from the cockpit, both in the cat and the yawl rig configurations (here they are too far forward and hard to reach).

Last edited by Chuck (21 Jun 2021 6:06 pm)

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#716 22 Jun 2021 8:13 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 247

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I know this comes too late for those  already at the sailing stage, but  I have found  the combination of  heavier spars and heavier woven Dacron sails (as opposed to laminated), make sail handling very much easier. The heavier yard and sail cloth brings the sail down effortlessly when lowering; the heavier boom keeps the sail in shape better; and the woven fabric folds and ties much tighter and is less slippery on deck and not 'crackly' when underway. For such small sails, the extra cost of the sail cloth is negligible as most of the cost is in the labour.
Interestingly, you will see from the Waterlust videos online that the original CLC boom was a much heavier affair than the one in the kit.

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#717 22 Jun 2021 12:48 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 330

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Interesting comments MartinC, thanks. I’m just about to taper my spars from the square-section blanks I made up last year. Dillon suggested tapering them on both bottom & sides when I asked about what the plans showed but with what you're suggesting perhaps I'll just leave them square-sectioned with radiused edges? Can always taper later if necessary. Weight aloft isn't going to aid in stability much under sail so there's a balance to be had somewhere in between....

As for laminated vs. traditional cloth: I haven’t ever taken mine from the bag they came shipped in, been a year or more since coming from CLC’s sailmaker! Judging from their feel mine're laminated. Stiffish, crinkly, not like the sails I had made for that scow I built nearly fifty years ago. Those came from Murphy & Nye in Chicago, felt more like cloth than plastic.

Last edited by spclark (22 Jun 2021 1:21 pm)

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#718 22 Jun 2021 4:17 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin -- woven Dacron sails would be really nice!  Being new to the boat ownership situation, I thought I would go with the sailing kit (especially since we don't have many sailmakers here in northern Alabama being a 6-hour drive from the sea!)  I think more flexible sails would really help with the reefing situation, too, and I don't know of anyone that would miss that crackling laminated plastic sail noise...

SP - I think on the boom issue an important factor would be if you plan to go loose-footed or not.  There is considerably more bend in the boom if the grommets on the foot of the sail aren't utilized.  Additionally, I noticed that the yard bends a noticeable amount, too, which could also change depending on how the main is attached to the boom.  At the moment I am loose-footed and have a single mainsheet attachment near the center of the boom with the CLC sailing kit equipment, and I have been keeping a close eye on boom bend.  So far I think it will be ok (bending ~2 inches when I really crank on the downhaul),  but I am keeping a close eye on it and need to put the boat through its paces with more sea trials!

My work meeting load is fairly light today, so I think I will go out to the garage to open up the deck for the aft mast step.

Guy, Martin -- have you made much use of the aft mast step and the cat configuration?  What do you think of it?

Last edited by Chuck (22 Jun 2021 4:26 pm)

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#719 23 Jun 2021 4:56 am

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Went out for a third time -- this time without anyone else along.  Winds 5-7 knots.  I was popping up and down from inside to up on deck constantly.  I noticed that there was a very noticeable difference between tacks: the tack with the sail blown onto the mast was much worse in its ability to point and to move than the other tack where the main could fill out fully in the wind.  Sailed with a full main and mizzen.

I think that for my type of sailing, not having a seat will be best (no mirage drive yet).  My 120 pounds is not exactly a lot of ballast, and being able to move quickly seems key.  So, I think moving the mizzen sheet back to the back coaming might work out better since I think it will be more accessible there than halfway up the deck, and it means one less cleat to worry about sitting on...

And SP: your toe hold idea in the longitudinals is brilliant -- they are exactly in the right place and working wonderfully, without having to think at all.  Perfect design tweak!

Next task is to adjust the halliard knots to get the yards up as high as possible to make room for the blocks underneath the boom, and perhaps to cant the booms up a bit more.  And, to get the board to stay down, and not to bounce back and forth so much while tacking when the force on it switches from one side to the other, rattling it around in the trunk.

Also, I think some docking cleats near the middle of the boat are needed -- one can't really reach the ends of the boat well, and there is little access to painters and such (and the dock cleats they are tied to) while sitting in the cockpit.  A cleat in the middle with a short line to a dock cleat would be accessible, and possible to cast on and off from inside the boat.  And, longer painters!  I originally had one ~20 foot long painter, but then cut it in half when it became clear that there really needs to be painters on each end of the boat; now neither painter is long enough!

And, the rudder yoke -- it hangs up terribly against the dock while coming in for a landing (hooking things everywhere) and pulled the rudder right out of its gudgeons (I'm relieved I didn't pull screws out of the hull!).  I'm not quite sure what to do about that; perhaps find a nice beach to launch from and land to...

Last edited by Chuck (23 Jun 2021 5:11 am)

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#720 23 Jun 2021 6:40 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 247

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi Chuck
'Mid-ships Docking cleats:- Highly recommended both on and off the water. On the water they good for painters, fenders and temporary line holders. Off the water (on car top or trailer) they are great  for fore and aft movement restraints. I rig a continuous  line from mine to the bow deck eye, so I can hook an anchor on from the cockpit, drop it over the side and haul the line  up to the bow.
Rudder yoke. Yes...Quite a problem! I too have managed to get hooked up on almost everything when coming alongside. No solution to this I'm afraid. I think it will just take practice ..... I used to sail a boat with a bowsprit and a bumkin and docking was always a challenge!

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#721 23 Jun 2021 12:44 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 330

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Chuck I'm surprised you find such a difference in behavior between tacks. From what I've read (balanced lugs are new to me; my scow had a bermuda rig) that shouldn't be the case. I have to wonder if perhaps there's something you could alter in your rigging geometry to improve this?

There's quite a discussion on the WoodenBoat forum back several years ago about downhaul placement and balanced vs. standing lug performance. Of particular value are the comments by Todd Bradshaw, fellow who wrote a wonderful book on sailing canoe rigs.

Again with that scow I vividly remember the 'excitement' I experienced with its first outings as built. It had a floor several inches above the bottom in the cockpit, putting crew CG rather high. No provision for footholds either. One of my first modifications was to rip out the floor, exposing the frames but also allowing a lower position for crew. Then I added hiking straps made from salvaged lawn chair webbing fastened to the exposed frames. Later excursions proved the value of both mods, the excitement increased for the added speed potential that 14' footer could then achieve!

Lastly I'm wondering if the rudder yolk could be shortened a little bit? Obviously the steering effort would increase but at the same time the degree to which the stock-length yolk getting hung up might be reduced disproportionately?

Last edited by spclark (23 Jun 2021 12:51 pm)

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#722 23 Jun 2021 2:50 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I have no doubt that I need a little bit more experimenting to get the boat to handle correctly when close hauled.  Learning how the sails respond when luffing and filling, how things look, the feel in the tiller, etc.  I've sailed with a windex for too long and I am finding it has been a bit of a crutch.  Winds were fairly light when I observed the differences on the different tacks, which made the experiment more difficult.  And, I think I will have a lot better tolerance for risk in this boat once I do a few practice capsizes to get a sense of the difficulty in recovery.

As for the rudder yoke: I don't think I would make the arms shorter, but I might consider cutting one of them off if I knew that I was happy with only one tiller -- two tillers is possibly an experiment for me later on down the line.  At least with one arm, docking on one side of the boat would be easier!

SP - I might recommend taking a look at your sails and spreading them out alongside your spars before you start in on your spar shaping.  The lengths on the heads and feet turned out to be a bit different than I expected, and not everything was equal, and I ended up customizing things a bit more than I expected.

Last edited by Chuck (23 Jun 2021 5:54 pm)

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#723 24 Jun 2021 11:55 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 330

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Yah, thanks Chuck, that's my plan.

(Was it earlier in this thread I read something about the sails delivered through CLC didn't quite jive with the dimensions given in the manual? Not gonna re-read all 29 pages for that tidbit, be easier to get my sails out & see for myself.)

If we don't get drenched this Saturday I'll be doing that comparison in my back yard.

Two tillers seems an extreme approach for such a modest-size craft as a Waterlust but then I haven't yet got mine launched so what do I know? Angle changes considerably if a tiller on the starboard side's being manipulated by a hiker on the port I'd have to believe.

(Have to wonder if Dillon stops in here much after he and CLC parted ways a few months back. This is the only place I know of there's any ongoing updates to how a few builders are getting on with their Waterlust builds.)

Last edited by spclark (25 Jun 2021 12:20 pm)

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#724 25 Jun 2021 10:50 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 247

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi Chuck.
I would persevere with the one tiller if I were you. I think a second one would really get in the way, and I have found that I have become used to the standard setup over time.
I definitely wouldn't cut one side of the yoke off! 'Sods law of the sea' dictates that the side you don't cut off will always be the side you need for berthing!

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#725 25 Jun 2021 12:19 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 330

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Good thread on lug trim on the WBF here:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread. … Techniques

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