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#626 20 Apr 2021 11:27 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 21

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Looks good, SP!

I wonder, what did you decide on for a trailer?  I was really planning on car-topping mine, but I am finding that some of the cartop fittings I was planning on using (extendable rail that sticks out the side of the car to help in loading and/or roller bar in the back that allows for rear loading onto the top) are sold out through midsummer!  So, I may need to get a trailer.

I've bought a fair amount about rigging over the winter and can pass on what I've hit upon, but I imagine that information from those who have already taken the boat out would be more useful.  One of the main impressions I've gotten is that the rigging adds up to quite a bit more than I expected!  I am hoping that these blocks with 4mm spectra line will handle most of the chores:
https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/prod … 25109.html , with the sheets taking bigger hardware.

My next tasks are shaping the foils, and hollowing out the main mast and perhaps the spars.  Sand and paint, and then put the deck on.  I've gotten a router and some bits and have to figure out a way to make a jig to do the job.

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#627 21 Apr 2021 12:29 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 214

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Trailer? Yeah, once my hull was 'glassed inside & I got an idea of what it'd weigh once complete, I ordered up a Trailer SUT-220-S. Less $$$ options are out there. I had a ShoreLander steel tilting-bed nearly 50 years ago for a stripper scow I'd built after college:

PS100_small.jpg

Didn't want (nor have room) to store something that size and weight where I live now. The Trailex, being aluminum, is less than half the weight. That it comes as a kit also means it can be taken apart again so I can store it in the winter in my garage with room to spare for my MINI Clubman. That it weighs so much less means it'll put less stress on that '13 Clubman.

I pulled that steelie + scow (never weighed but maybe twice what my Waterlust'll end up at!) onnit with a 1972 Honda Civic for a few years so I know a bit about how a small FWD car behaves with ~ 600 lbs hanging off the back....

4mm Specrta? Man I hope that won't hurt your hands! I've opted for 1/4" DWX Traditions RAID braid for sheets, maybe 3/16" for other stuff. Thinking Spectra for halyards & downhauls though, who'd you source yours from Chuck?

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#628 23 Apr 2021 12:25 am

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 21

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Yeah, I ordered from Duckworks for line and am a little bit disappointed.  The outer sheath of the double braid is loose against the core on the Raid Braid and even on their good 5/16" sheet line (Marlow Marstron+) -- next time I'm going somewhere else.  Their Marlow Excel Racing Line (spectra) does feel good in the hand, however (4mm halliards, out and downhauls).

The 4mm partially-spectra stuff at Mauripro (Dinghy Race Grip Light) has a good feel, too (reefing line).

FYI for all:  CLC is having a Big Little Boat Festival next month (May 22, 2021) that I am hoping to head out to (since I have raced on that very water for several years before I moved to Alabama, have finally been vaccinated, have old sailing pals to reconnect with, and now have a concrete goal for finishing the boat!)

See: https://www.clcboats.com/festival

On the subject of line, "Practical Canoeing" by 'Typhis' (1883) has recommendations for line sizes -- he seems to favor 3/16" for pretty much everything.

mini_IMG_8356.jpg

There is also Michael Storer's rigging guide for Oz Gooses: https://www.opengoose.com/building-a-go … e-rigging/ , and for the Viola 14: https://www.storerboatplans.com/wp/wp-c … E-2019.pdf which I found extremely useful for generating ideas.  (but I am still trying to figure out the name of the little red double-eyed link they used in the outhaul tackle!)

Last edited by Chuck (8 May 2021 6:30 pm)

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#629 29 Apr 2021 2:45 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 192

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I put Gaia in a very cold pool today to test my buoyancy theories, and although the cold limited the amount of time I could spend in the water, having the boat in a controlled environment  (albeit without masts and sails), enabled me to make several objective observations which weren't possible when I floundering around last year in the muddy waters of the Norfolk Broads!

1. Firstly, I put the original daggerboard in and tried to get into the (dry) boat from the water over the cockpit side. This was a struggle, but was just possible to do do without capsizing.
2.  Then I pulled the boat over from the water. This was very easy to do and it was interesting that the 'point of no return' came very quickly, and when full of water it wasn't possible to climb into the  boat from the water without capsizing (as I discovered last year).
3. It was interesting that the back of the boat filled up with water to the same depth with and without  three (1000mmx200mm) buoyancy bags  and as the bow section is so buoyant, I now don't see any need for the aft buoyancy I had used previously.
4. The automatic electric pump I mentioned in an earlier post is highly recommended as it pumped the boat out very quickly and the forward storage locker, where the battery is, was bone dry.
5. When the boat was dry again I replaced the original daggerboard with the 15kg steel one I had made. The difference was very noticeable. The boat was very difficult to pull over from the water and the 'point of no return' came much later.
6. With the heavy daggerboard and the boat full of water, getting back into the cockpit from the side this time was easy. The extra counterbalanced weight made a huge difference.
Conclusions:-
a) The heavier steel daggerboard will probably not make a significant difference to the tenderness of the boat when under full sail, but I am convinced that it will enable me to climb back into the rigged capsized boat, which was simply not possible before. To my mind and for the sailing that I am planning to do; it now makes the boat safe.
b) Equally, the automatic electric pump is a lifesaver. I can't see how you could bail the boat out manually whilst trying to right it and get it moving again. When full of water it does not behave like a conventional capsized dinghy - the water in the stern can't get out through/over a transom so you need to get the water out quickly.

I will be trying out my reduced rig when the weather gets a little warmer and will post results. If I hadn't got so cold, I would have tried flooding the two lockers either side of the Hobie drive casing to see what effect this water ballast would have.....I feel sure it will be beneficial, but that will have to wait for another day.

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#630 30 Apr 2021 4:58 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 192

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

PS One unintended consequence of the heavier steel daggerboard is that although it enables re-boarding after a capsize, it does cause the boat to float lower in the water (when full of water) and therefore there is more water to pump/bail out. In view of this I think Guy's advice to block off the rear storage area with a bulkhead would be a good idea - not to increase buoyancy but to decrease the flooded area.

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#631 30 Apr 2021 7:33 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 236

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin,

Thanks for that super report on the tests! That's all really interesting news. Sounds encouraging - I look forward to hearing how the reduced rig performs, good luck with that next step. Now -- where do i get my hands on an elecric bilge pump....

From here very little progress on Svale's outriggers as I had to get the boys pram ready for a sailing course this weekend. The few  'small jobs' needed to commission a vessel always seem to take much longer than I anticipate.

Wonderful news - and I hope it points to the start of a successful sailing season.

SP and Chuck - keep the reports coming! I hope the deadline of a meet up helps to keep the motivation to get the last jobs done!

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#632 1 May 2021 9:02 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 192

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Guy.
I have experimented with doing a video showing the tests with the two daggerboards. (As you know by now IT is not my strong suit I'm afraid so forgive the quality!).
The first is with the light daggerboard. Although I didn't let it go all the way over, you can see that the boat falls on top of you long before you can get in. The second shows that the 15KG daggerboard acts as just enough of a counterweight to allow me (73kgs) to climb in.
You can also see the pump doing its stuff!
https://youtu.be/7Lz3CEmgZEc
https://youtu.be/g_NNLkXkjW8
(Hope this works!)

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#633 6 May 2021 7:37 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 236

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin,

Yes - that works! Nice videos thank for sharing. It really looks like chalk and cheese - and that pump does seem to shift water at quite a rate. I hope the next steps are as successful.

I was out sailing over the weekend, I haven't finished the outriggers yet, and had a lovely day out amongst the islands. The kids were all at a sailing course, so I was mostly watching that and sailing round close where the course was happening. (parents are encourage to come and join in here in Norway, the school even had a 'parents boat' where the other parents drove around and followed the kids in their optimists! I enjoyed having a sail somewhere else, and at sea this time so I had a much steadier wind. That was a great help, as there wasn't the 'on / off' gustiness I get in the lake near home. I am starting to get a bit more used to the boat now, and am learning some of the 'tricks' that I imagine anyone with this type of rig will already be aware of.  I missed stays a couple of times, and if you stall mid tack, it helps to ease off on the mizzen sheet, as that's a really good thing for pinning you head to wind if you have stopped moving. The long hull of the waterlust doesn't turn quickly so I found that I really needed to get myself established, with good boatspeed on one tack before starting the tack, and if it doesn't work and you start to go backwards you might need some quick work with the rudder, either reversing it if you actually start to sail backwards, or just a few 'pumps' to try and get the head to fall off on the new tack. At this point if the mizzen is in tight, it will tend to keep the head up into the wind. Easing it off seems to help.  The other thing I found was brilliant was sailing backwards with the mainsail down. I had to come alongside a pontoon, which was at the downwind end of the marina, so running down, and reaching across with all sail up would have been a high speed mess. Instead I dropped the main head to wind, and simply pushed the mizzen out to one side and started sailing backwards, I could easily adjust the course by swapping which side I had the mizzen out - this seemed more effective than steering with the rudder sometimes, but that might be because i wasn't going so fast. Anyway, that worked nicely, something to consider if you want an nice controlled approach, downwind into a tight space.

Now the boys pram is launched and being used, I have tidied the garage and can start work on the outriggers again!

Guy

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#634 7 May 2021 8:30 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 21

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Sounds like progress is being made all over!

Martin, I especially appreciate the videos you posted, illustrating the capsize problem and a possible solution.  And, looking through your other Youtube videos, I see that car-topping a Waterlust may not be an absolutely crazy idea!

I have once again taken some pointers from SP's build, and managed to figure out how to hang the rudder:
IMG_8380D.jpgIMG_8377D.jpg
The cut-outs from the longitudinals did nice work here as backing plates for the gudgeon hardware.


In the process, I have learned that my choice of hardware is not ideal.  The 'two-gudgeon' approach with a separate pin has problems:  How to put the pin in (from the top) when the steering yoke is glued to the top of the rudder cassette? (hopefully the yoke won't stick out too much and I will still be able to get the pin in)  Also, the split-rings in the pins interfere with the motion of the rudder, which I hope can be solved by getting much smaller rings.  Additionally, there was a lot of difficult precision bending required on the rudder gudgeons to fit the hardware over the thick cassette, and the steel straps are all marred with pliers marks.  Next time I'll stick with basic and just use regular pintles.

On the subject of capsizing and bailing out, your observations have led to a design in my head for a hinged bulkhead at the back of the cockpit that can be swung back for access.  However, I think the rush to get the boat done, and the question of what to do for a gasket might preclude that idea, keeping me with the original design...

Last edited by Chuck (7 May 2021 8:44 pm)

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#635 8 May 2021 7:23 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 192

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Well done Guy with the backwards sailing. Very impressive! I have sailed with a mizzen for many years, but I have to admit, I have never managed this manoeuvre!  Your sailing experiences are very instructive for those of us who are following on behind. Many thanks.

Yes, Chuck. Car topping single-handed is possible, even for an elderly gent like me, as long as you have a reasonably big car and work it all out in advance and take things slowly. I found that fitting old carpet on the roof bars with cable ties gives just the right amount of friction - allowing just enough (and not too much) sliding for getting the boat on and off in a controlled fashion, while still protecting the hull.

If it is any consolation, I think we all had a bit of a struggle with the rudder gudgeons. I don't know how exactly, but I ended up fitting mine rather lower than I would have wished, and I certainly had to do some bending of the metalwork to make them fit.

Re. Creating a rear sealed/hinged bulkhead. It has just occurred to me that if you are going down this route it would be advisable, before you fit the deck, to build a mizzen mast 'box' (like you have with the main mast). Otherwise water can get into the sealed rear compartment through the mast hole in the deck, which  might be a bit of a pain.

It looks like a very cold Spring here in the UK is about to get warmer, so I am looking forward to my first sail with my new rig next week. I'll let you all know how it goes.

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#636 8 May 2021 3:18 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 214

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

All that's been posted since I last stopped by will make for good reading later! I seem to have (once again) somehow disabled the auto-notice feature here for new posts. Maybe it'll be re-set with this one!

Anyway, I'm slowly working towards getting my Waterlust ready for her launch. Maybe not with sails yet, but as the Mirage drive was a major reason it appealed to me so much it'll be first means of propulsion while the other stuff gets finished.

Martin's videos may motivate me to fitting a pump system too. Seems like A Good Idea despite the initial expense though not much more than I've already spent on hardware alone.

Looking forward, our intrepid Texas sailor and Waterlust builder Jeff's planning on doing at least a segment of the upcoming 2021 Florida 120 that starts this Thursday with his. Recently fitted with CLC's ama kit he's telling me it makes a Waterlust more predictable under sail, which was the original goal in bringing it to fruition. Hopefully he'll either see fit to join us here himself next week or at least bring word of his experiences to my monitor so that I can then post news here also.

Carry on!

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#637 8 May 2021 6:54 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 21

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Two questions for the group:

1) Is there a preferred version of the Mirage drive?  It comes in multiple flavors with multiple price points: turbo or regular fins, and even a capability to go in reverse.  Any thoughts?

2) Boat covers / sail bags.  It occurs to me that I will have to fashion up some sort of cover for the cockpit when it is on top of the car.  I've been thinking of routing a groove in the outside of the coaming to take a piece of elastic sewn to the outside of some sort of piece of fabric.  But now I have to find the fabric, and learn how to sew...  And, I think that at ~9 feet, the spars are not going to really like traveling around inside the car, so there will probably have to be some sort of sail bag to hold the sails bent on to the spars that can stand being tied to the roof rack.  Do any of you have experience with fabrics that might be good for these roles?

Last edited by Chuck (9 May 2021 1:54 am)

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#638 8 May 2021 8:33 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 214

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Valid questions Chuck.

1) The latest, reversing version of the Mirage drive will fit but the reverse-actuating mechanism requires some work to allow it to be used. Dillon Majoros sent me a couple of pics last year showing how this could be done; I'll see if I can find them then post 'em here. I think Jeff in Texas has the Turbo fins in his drive. I have the standard version... at least for the time being.

2) I like your idea of a cockpit cover. I'd begun looking for outfits near me who could undertake making a custom boat cover. If that proves prohibitively expensive I may go your route. I need only a cover to keep debris and rain out while on the trailer & the road as I expect to garage both trailer and Waterlust when not in use.

Sail and spar covers are available commercially; again I'm aware that Jeff bought one for his kit early last year. They should be available from several sources like these and more, both here in the US as well as in Europe:

https://westcoastsailing.net/parts/spar-bags                  https://sailingfast.co.uk/product/topper-spar-bag/

https://duckworks.com/balch-sail-n-spar-bags/           https://www.force4.co.uk/department/din … ccessories     

https://store.offshorespars.com/collections/spar-bags     https://www.roostersailing.com/products/132927


I haven't yet tried putting my main mast into the hull... I suppose I should try measuring the available space first with a tape measure rather than the mast itself eh? CLC's ama kit is designed for storage in the hull, which simplifies or complicates things markedly depending on an owner's preferences.

Last edited by spclark (8 May 2021 8:42 pm)

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#639 9 May 2021 5:59 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 192

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi Chuck.
Hobie drive:- I have the standard Mirage drive (without reverse) as I couldn't imagine any situation when sailing where I would want to (or be able to!) reverse. I think it was designed for fishing boats where you have both hands on the rod and want to back up. I have the turbo fin as it was the only one I could get hold of, but  I am afraid I don't have any means of comparison with the standard one.
I think a cockpit cover is a good idea. I don't have one, but I have been thinking about one with eyelets and bungee rubber threaded through which can be  hooked over something like these screwed into the side of the cockpit coaming. https://shop.classicmarine.co.uk/lacing … small.html
I am afraid the main mast won't fit inside the hull. When I did some brief car-topping last year I put all the spars alongside the boat on the roof bars. A sail bag is nice to have, but the sails won't come to any harm tied to their respective spars. Over here traditional sailmakers like this one https://www.jameslawrencesailmakers.com/ will supply a sail bag (made from sail cloth) with their sails at very little extra cost.

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#640 9 May 2021 6:10 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 192

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Re. cockpit cover. This is the sort of thing I was imagining with the lacing hooks screwed (upside down) into the side of the coaming.
https://drascombe.uk/spares-and-accesso … pit-covers
The string in the middle is a nice touch when the boat is on the ground to keep the water from puddling, and on the Waterlust you could leave the masts up and put a line between them to support it.

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#641 Yesterday 12:31 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 214

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Our intrepid Texan Jeff's braved gas shortages and bad weather to once again take on the Florida 120 race this year, starts today! Four days on the waters of our Gulf near Pensacola FL, among an assortment of other watercraft carrying like-minded skippers & crew. This year he's taken his new Waterlust canoe, fitted with the CLC ama upgrade he finished not too long ago. Jeff sent a couple of pics yesterday after his 11-hour drive to the race start:

On_the_Beach.jpg

Beachscene_Pano.jpg

Fair winds & weather Jeff, we're anxious to know how your craft performs under you these next few days!

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#642 Yesterday 12:47 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 192

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Just arrived home after a couple of days on the river. Good news! The reduced rig and the heavy dagger board worked a treat.

I was able to peddle the Hobie drive and sail (and 'motor sail'!) from the pedalling position without fear of capsizing. This is perfect for me, as where I sail the rivers are fairly narrow and you are quite likely to be pedalling along in complete calm and then round a corner and get a blast of wind which knocks you sideways. With the original rig and daggerboard, this would result in a capsize, as you wouldn't have time to get your feet out of the pedals and your bottom up onto the side; but with the reduced rig she just took off like a rocket with me still in the pedalling position.

The other advantages in sailing from this seated position are that it is more comfortable, you can see where you are going (as you are lower), and you can pedal assist to windard which allows you to point higher. Also, if you can keep your nerve and stay seated, all your weight is lower in the boat and it is much more stable when running or reaching.

My next job will be to run the mizzen sheet to a cleat further forward so I can control both sheets from the pedalling position.

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#643 Yesterday 12:49 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 192

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

PS Lovely photos SP! Keep us informed of your and Jeff's progress.

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#644 Today 5:06 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 192

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Has anyone any ideas on how to restrain the tiller effectively and also how to 'lock' it when the rudder is in the for and aft position?

I have a piece of cord stopping me from loosing it altogether, but this doesn't stop it from falling overboard at the most inconvenient times (when hands are involved with other ropes), and it would be nice  to be able to lock it in position on occasions, like when paddling with a paddle  to manoeuvre in tight spaces.

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#645 Today 4:48 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 21

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

And here is a picture from Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=102 … 2990221194

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