Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Ooh - some good reading here. Thanks for the discussion on rig details. Not much to report from Bergen as I had a family weekend taking advantage of the last of the spring snow. I did get the clamps off the last epoxy work though, and am ready to bond the hatch sill.

Coaming worked fine.

This was not quite so good, as I must have nudged the inner sill rim on one side a few mm out of true as I put the weights on it. Not a big problem, I suspect will be invisible after sanding and paint, but could have been neater. All this stuff is ‘rescuable’ if things go a bit wrong, it just takes a bit of time and effort that could be avoided if the problem is discovered before the epoxy has gelled!

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (3 May 2020 9:30 pm)

spclark

Member

From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA

Registered: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 465

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Sweet! Nice work, even with the nudge!

We’ve had two days here of 22° C sunny weather, quite a nice early May surprise! Won’t last though, be 2° C overnight & a bit of patchy frost predicted, 10° for a high tomorrow & maybe showers....

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thinking about it....It must make sense to fit the rudder gudgeons (and perhaps any deck reinforcement on the underside to take deck fittings) before fitting the deck. Or am I overthinking this?

I did consider this - but came to the conclusion that as long as you can access the area inside it should be ok. And yes, I do intend to re-enforce inside in the places where the gudgeons are screwed or bolted through the hull. I did find some gudgeons on classic marine ( https://shop.classicmarine.co.uk/s2-2-h … dgeon.html ) that are oriented in a vertical plane, if I were to use those, then I think i would use screws into the epoxy fillet in the stem, and probably not re-enforce internally, as I would try not to penetrate all the way through the fillet. The outside would need shaping though to make sure it sits nicely.

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

6. Nothing to do with the lug rig, but I am using pad eyes (rather than cleats) on the bow and stern as I can’t  foresee a situation when I would need a cleat and would rather have permanently attached painters/mooring warps leading back into the cockpit.

I will also go for a pad eye at the front, not sure at the back as there will be rudder hardware there, but I do think that my painter will remain an almost permanent fixture.

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Glad you have discovered Classic Marine, Guy. They are my local store and they are superb - I have shopped there for decades.

It might be worth checking the exact width of the gudgeon though - a lot of what they make is for much larger boats. Bronze is very expensive, but will look superb on the Waterlust and I will be ordering a lot of stuff from them.

In the end I have decided to fit a wooden stern post so I can screw into from the sides.  I made it in two parts and it is gluing tonight -  It is a bit crude but will never be seen - I'll post a picture tomorrow!

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Well well, that was a bit of an adventure... I ended up tying myself in knots there. I spent the evening working on the rubbing strake. I got the ends tapered down a bit, got my brads ready, epoxy mixed and all ready to party. Then the fun began. I started off getting one strake roughly taped into place with gaffa tape, then set about using the brass brads to hold it in place. The only problem was that the brads kept bending, and I was only getting something like one in 5 in. Then near the bow and stern, they simply were not strong enough to hold the strake next to the hull. So a bit of oh dear this is not going well feeling came over me. In the end I did a mix of things, all the while worrying I was running out of time, and every false move rubbing resin off the places it should be. The solution was to pre drill and screw the strake to the hull. That worked much better till I ran out of screws. Packing tape, clamps and straps did the rest. So in the end I hope this will work, I will find out tomorrow.

Ready to rumble

Pesky little things. I may be incompetent with a hammer, or these things are a little weak for this wood. A few went in ok, but many would bend, and once that happened that was game over.

Here you can see all the methods of joining things together

At the extreme ends I needed screws quite close together. I will remove them and fill the holes.

Phew - I hope that works out ok, that was less fun than I thought it was going to be when I started the job. Maybe I should have done one side at a time and given myself more time with the resin, but one pump of resin was enough for both stakes and I did t want to waste it...

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (5 May 2020 6:42 am)

spclark

Member

From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA

Registered: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 465

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

When I first read the manual that came with my kit I was immediately skeptical of the brass brads recommended for attaching the rubrails. My experience with bronze ring shank boat nails 40+ years ago was enough to leave me thinking this just wasn't going to be a useful approach without something else to pull those strips into contact long enough for the epoxy to set properly.

Brass is just too soft to work without pre-drilling holes where brads would be driven. Even then, smooth-shank brads have little enough holding power even in thin, flat stock that's not forced into some unusual shape.

I'm inclined towards small #6 bronze or stainless steel flat-head screws, either wood or sheet-metal type... whatever I can find. They'd need pre-drilled holes to avoid splitting the rub rails, and I'd expect to use clamps - pipe clamps in this case - to pull the strips into position as I move along their length, drillin' holes & driving screws.

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Well done Guy. Looks good on the photo.
You are not alone in having those  'Oh dear this is not going well' feelings. Mine was in cutting out set resin with a saw when re-fitting the breast hooks!
Generally things are better in the clear light of day, and as you pointed out in an earlier post, there is very little that can't be rectified after the event. I am sure you already know this, but if the worst happens you can 'melt' the set resin with a warm air drier and start again ....something I wish I had known whan I had my breasthook experience!
Keep going. Your posts are an inspiration.

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

My rather crude sternpost - but hopefully it will make life easier in the future!

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

My rather crude sternpost - but hopefully it will make life easier in the future!

https://forum.fyneboatkits.co.uk/img/members/25554/mini_sternpost-1.jpeg

Looks just the job! I might well make myself something similar. I will wait till I have landed on rudder hardware before putting any re-enforcement in. 

On that subject I did talk to Richard at Classic marine, who said if it came to it I could send him dimensions, or a model of the hardware needed and he could get it made. Would you be interested in bronze hardware if I got round to working out what is needed?

Guy

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks for asking Guy. I would have done, but I have just ordered a couple of these which I think/hope will fit the contours of the boat and have long enough tangs to get all three fixings into my sternpost. https://marinestore.co.uk/product-displ … al-4018-23

If it does fit, I'll let you know, and Classic Marine can give you a price for a bronze one to save you doing all the measurements from scratch.

I think the fixing of the rudder is pretty important on these boats as we may be sailing/pedalling them without the centreboard when the rudder will be the first thing to hit any underwater obstruction, also I can see myself forgetting about it when landing on a beach/shore. For this reason, I have already started to think about the uphaul/downhaul arrangement as I don't like the idea of the rudder being cleated in the down position when the gudgeons will take the full impact of a grounding. Perhaps a length of bungee cord on the downhaul. Any thoughts?

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

For this reason, I have already started to think about the uphaul/downhaul arrangement as I don't like the idea of the rudder being cleated in the down position when the gudgeons will take the full impact of a grounding. Perhaps a length of bungee cord on the downhaul. Any thoughts?

how about one of these?

https://www.clamcleat.com/applications/ … -mini.html

not sure where you get them from, but I have heard them recommended.

spclark

Member

From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA

Registered: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 465

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I've ordered a couple of those for my build:

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/sd- … parent.htm

- from one of my sources here in the US.

At the bottom of that clamcleat web page there's links to find distributors as well as for an on-line shop.

MartinC I can't see why your sternpost idea shouldn't work. If your preference is for in-line screw fasteners over bolt-thru, yours is a practical solution to ensuring sufficient material for the screws to hold onto!

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I have just been to remove the clamps, tape and screws. It looks like everything has held, and I consider the job to be a 'success' even if it didn't go quite as planned. If I were to do this again I would find screws with large flat heads and a small thread diameter, and just use those all along. I only had countersunk head screws and now have a filling job to do. There are one or two tiny gaps here and there that will need filling, so I will get onto that along with coating the coaming with resin.   

One thing I did do right was to work on the profiling of the tips pf the strakes before fitting. Now I see them fitted, I think I could have made the tapers even longer than I did.  I didn't do any profiling along the length before fitting as I don't have a long enough work bench. Taking the sharp edge off is easier now the things are attached to a solid object. 

Holes to fill at the bow

and the stern

all in all, looking ok.

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Really good. Well done! And many thanks both for the links to the auto release clam cleats.

50 years of sailing and I have never come across these before. They seem like an excellent solution. I am inclined to have the uphaul and downhaul tied together on a loop and have the one clam cleat, as it seems to me you are always going to need to operate the two ropes together.

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Ah - I only found out about those recently myself, in Roger Barnes book on dinghy cruising!

spclark

Member

From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA

Registered: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 465

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Got console cap bonded yesterday afternoon after deciding I'd painted on enough Brighsides white in those interior compartments:

Took precautions to keep epoxy from running down int daggerboard well. Used soft foam covered with a layer of plastic packing tape to plug slot at top:

Before I mixed up then applied a goodly amount of Cell-o-fill thickened epoxy to the previously coated then sanded bonding surfaces:

Holding everything together where clamps couldn't be conveniently placed was easily done with small wood screws:

Then set up for a fairly accelerated cure under heat lamps:

Will add strengthening fillets after work today, probably after turning hull upside down so fillets added underneath console cap are easier to place....

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

That looks like a super job SP! wonderful stuff.   I aim to get a bit of un-thickened epoxy on my bare wood rubbing strakes, and coaming this evening.

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Yes. Lovely job SP.
I bounced the sternpost idea off Dillon yesterday and he said 'I think your sternpost is a wise choice for flexibility in mounting options and extra strength', so I have decided to put one in the bow as well whilst I have the deck off and I am waiting for the gudgeons and screws to arrive, as it must help in the event of a knock either on land or on the water.

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Well, not so much to show, but a coat of resin on the bare wood, before operation “dusty garage” begins...

Ooh, and I did get a fun thing in the post today. A late 1800’ print of the lines of ‘Nautilus’ - of Baden-Powell fame! Probably a bit niche, but I think it’s rather fun.

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Today I turned the boat over and sanded down the hull with 80 grit. Then I brushed it, and washed it down with a meths rag.

So not shiny any more. I was very happy the garage was not super full of dust, the filter on my cheap and cheerful random orbital sander seems to be doing a good job.

The rubbing strake is masked off, ready for primer tomorrow.

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

The always slightly disappointing first primer coat is now on.

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Slightly ahead of the manual I fitted the rudder today - before fitting the deck.

It is a bit of a struggle getting everything lined up! I threaded the gudgeons onto a bar to mark up their positions relative to each other and found it was a great help having gudgeons with three fixing holes as you can put the screw in the centre one and then swivel them to get correct allignment. The only disadvantage of having the longer tangs (with 3 holes) is that you can't get the whole assembly as high as shown on the drawing posted earlier. Mine ended up with the underside of the tiller yoke almost level with the deck - rather than 3/4" higher as shown on the drawing. I hope it has no practical sailing implications!

PS Guy:- I had to  cut, drill and bend my stainless steel gudgeons to make them fit the hull shape which wasn't too difficult as it was fairly thin stainless steel, but I would be wary about getting some bronze ones made unless your drawing skills are very good and they can be made to fit!

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Sorry about the photo! Not quite sure what went wrong there. The last word is 'exactly'!

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin - that's a good idea to get that done at that stage, I am sure it will be less fiddly than what I will have to do when I get to that stage. Thanks for the tips on the work you needed to do to them. If I go for bronze hardware I will make mock ups in cardboard / thin ply to get the shapes right before getting anything made up, but I suspect it will be much cheaper to go for ones like you have.  Looks like you have done a nice job there.