Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

spclark · 28 Apr 2020 2:20 pm

That builder in Texas sent a pic of a drawing he somehow arrived at showing how he approached that.

I'm closing in on that operation too so your question's timely!

Dillon - early on in e-mails we've exchanged - suggested he has a guide for how commercial gudgeons can be reshaped to fit the Waterlust's stern profile. I've queried him on that detail earlier this morning. As his habit has been to reply on a weekly basis it may be a few days before I hear back from him. This C-19 stuff's got him working at home rather than at the CLC shop...

Here's a detail of how the Texas builder attached his tiller:

His previous sailing experience apparently is serving him well over how properly to rig his build! Made many of the cleats and blocks he's used from scratch too, quite a nice touch!

Last edited by spclark (28 Apr 2020 4:59 pm)

MartinC · 28 Apr 2020 4:25 pm

Those measurements are really useful SP. I was wondering how that operation is done. I would be really grateful if you would post Dillon's advice when it comes. I am still some way off!

To take some of the tedium out of sanding and applying umpteen coats of varnish to the inside, I have been thinking about rigging too. Do you have any more photos of a fully rigged boat? I agree the wooden blocks look great...but aren't they huge!

One of the sailing issues I had concerns about was the almost impossibility of reaching the rudder if anything went wrong with the steering when far from land. The most likely event I could forsee was letting go of the tiller by mistake and end up towing it behind the boat with no steerage !

I spoke to Dillon and he suggests a tether of some sort so that it can be retrieved. I guess that is what the cleat on the tiller in the photo is?

spclark · 28 Apr 2020 4:52 pm

MartinC wrote:

I spoke to Dillon and he suggests a tether of some sort so that it can be retrieved. I guess that is what the cleat on the tiller in the photo is?

Here's another view showing how (I think?) that line is really a loop of the rudder uphaul line:

Taking the end not attached to the rudder back through a fairlead to that cleat, then on to the tiller yolk to serve as the connection between tiller and yolk is a pretty clever way to rig a safety I think!

The rudder downhaul control line to starboard, in a different crop of that previous image (I've deleted it in favor of this wider view),:

- doesn't serve a dual purpose.

It's abundantly clear to me this is not a simple watercraft when it comes to running rigging. Maybe yet another reason CLC chose to include it in their Pro line? A challenge certainly, where having someone with more experience showing the way is invaluable!

And as for the size of his blocks? Keep in mind the removable part of those access hatches are 6" diameter. My guess is those blocks might be all of 2-1/2", a bit under 6.5cm? (Am I doing that unit tagging properly for you folks across the pond? I can work in mm/cm/dm but the labeling isn't something I do a lot of... my apologies!)

Last edited by spclark (28 Apr 2020 4:58 pm)

Bergen_Guy · 28 Apr 2020 5:59 pm

What great info SP, some really nice photos of 'the Texan build', Crusader looks to be a fine vessel.

I have seen a few people with these long Norwegian type push pull tiller set ups with a small loop of bungee cord looped round some suitable fitting that can be used to keep things from falling out of reach. Look at minute 3:46 of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-TNI19FkOg

of the rather beautiful Rushton Princess being sailed. It looks like John also has a system for keeping the tiller 'locked down'. I believe that in dinghy cruising circles some sort of friction device is quite common to reduce the helm's tendency to flop around when you are doing something else on the boat.

SP you are doing just great with the conversions - I think inches work just fine in the UK, but I have been living in Metric countries for so long now, I don't visualize inches so easily!

MartinC · 29 Apr 2020 6:20 am

Many thanks SP. The photos of a completed craft are a real morale boost and it is an inspiration to see such a fine example. If you have any others (no hurry!), I am sure we can all get ideas for our own boats.
Don't worry about using feet and inches! Metrication in the 1970's over here never really stuck with my age group (60's), and I have been using both all my working life.
The Rushton Princess looks a lovely boat - although a little 'tender' for my liking! I am hoping the Waterlust will be a bit more stable.I like that curved tiller!

Bergen_Guy · 29 Apr 2020 10:08 am

I know what you mean about stability- I too hope the waterlust will be reasonably stable, at least for a sailing canoe!

I got one more coat of resin on today, and a picture of a cleaned up fibreglass seam.

So - there you go, the seam is starting to vanish nicely. The slightly grey area in the middle of the photo is the overlap zone. I intend to sand once more once this layer of resin has cured before I change over to varnishing the top.

I am going to borrow a jigsaw from a friend to cut out the hatch, and I also need to start work on the rubbing strakes before I start painting the hull.

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (29 Apr 2020 10:11 am)

spclark · 29 Apr 2020 12:23 pm

MartinC wrote:

The Rushton Princess looks a lovely boat - although a little 'tender' for my liking! I am hoping the Waterlust will be a bit more stable.I like that curved tiller!

I'd had plans (from Woodenboat) and materials for Oughtred's MacGregor since the late '80's.

Got around to laminating the stems but never further. Then we moved.

Had of course heard of Rushton, never of his Princess -

- but I can see the appeal! At least for someone younger....

Much of the appeal of Majoros' Waterlust for me is its higher freeboard and that Mirage drive! Her sailing capability adds elegance while the reef points add some measure of security.. if I can remember to tie them in before heading out some afternoon!

I'm of the same era as you Martin I think, I remember the big Metrification push over half a century ago, and the pretty universal derision it engendered amongst people I knew here in the US. To me it made all kinds of sense but it's hard to overcome habit.

Press on Guy! You're closer than any of us!

If either of you two have particular areas of interest you'd like a picture of let me know. That file collection I received from the Texan's build is too extensive to put up here in total, but I've sorted it out now so finding something isn't too tedious.

Bergen_Guy · 29 Apr 2020 9:14 pm

I managed to borrow the jig saw, with a pretty fine toothed blade and do the slightly scary job of cutting holes in the deck! It all worked out ok. I had to move the hatch location from the standard location to fit round the fore-deck re enforcements. I was happy that my measurements seem to have worked. While I had the saw out I also did the rear inspection hatch. I may well follow others and put another up front. I decided not to start messing with resin while I was tired so I haven’t started glueing the hatch sill parts together, that can wait till tomorrow.

Measure twice...

Coz you only get one chance to cut this!

Nice to see inside here again!

One inspection hatch dry fitted. I think that probably need seating in something slightly flexible, rather than epoxy.

I also managed to put a rounded profile on the cockpit coaming, not the easiest thing to handle as it’s a big slightly flexible piece, but I am happy with how it looks. Whether my thighs will think the same when I
am sailing, time will tell!

Next up is glueing the hatch sill and starting work on the rubbing stakes.

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (29 Apr 2020 9:15 pm)

spclark · 30 Apr 2020 1:49 am

There’s a Waterlust on Instagram today, saw it in a bunch of images just now on the CLC website:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_SgEIPHRIo/

No idea where, or who builder is, but I commend them on their taste in watercraft!

I sweated over whether to choose tanbark sails when I placed my order, went with the Egyptian cream instead. I’m glad yet I do like the look of tanbark above a light-toned hull as here. These boats are just too beautiful to ignore!

Bergen_Guy · 30 Apr 2020 6:56 am

Good find SP! Yes, indeed, that's what we are all here for isn't it? I look forward to getting to that stage. Interesting placement of the rudder fittings - I would have tried to space them further apart myself.

spclark · 30 Apr 2020 2:13 pm

Your eyes are better than mine Guy, I missed that rudder hardware detail @ first look! Questioned the mainsheet block though. why they can be called ‘headknockers’!

Bergen_Guy · 30 Apr 2020 2:34 pm

Did a little test with the kids and friends today.... how many can you fit in a waterlust??

And how big is that forward locker??

Looking like this is going to work just fine!

MartinC · 30 Apr 2020 3:57 pm

Hours/days years of enjoyment ahead. May alter your centre of lateral resistance a bit though !!!!!

Bergen_Guy · 30 Apr 2020 7:59 pm

This evening I came upon the boat building truism “you can never have enough clamps”

I ended up with even more slates on too - just to be sure...

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (30 Apr 2020 8:00 pm)

spclark · 30 Apr 2020 10:52 pm

All Clamps On Deck!!

And I wouldn't bed those access ports in epoxy either. Likely whatever plastic they're made from won't bond to epoxy.

You want some kind of elastic compound like silicone or (if you're absolutely, positively sure you'll never want to remove them!) maybe 3M 5200 or one of the Sikaflex family of marine sealants.

Last edited by spclark (30 Apr 2020 11:20 pm)

MartinC · 2 May 2020 10:32 am

Hi.

I am probably being stupid (and I have now ordered some more fibreglass for the deck so it doesn't matter), but my boat is 950mm at the widest point. The fibreglass matting supplied with the kit is 1m wide.

Page 19 of the 'manual' says to apply the glass to the deck so that it overlaps the hull by 2" (50mm) on both sides. By my calculation, this will leave the overlap 50mm short.

As I mentioned in a previous post, having not used the offcuts for the inside of the boat, I have run out of a single length to do the deck anyway, so I have had to order another 18ft, but this time I have ordered 1.2m wide so that I can get the 2" overlap at the widest point.

I don't suppose it matters having half as much overlap as is recommended in the manual, and for me I needed more glass anyway, but for those coming later, this apparant discrepancy might be worth questioning.

Bergen_Guy · 2 May 2020 3:15 pm

Good spot. Had I had enough glass cloth to ‘do it in one’ my plan had been to cut the glass cloth down the middle of to cockpit to allow the edges to move apart and get a bit more overlap. Good luck with getting your deck glassed!

spclark · 2 May 2020 4:26 pm

20 yards (60 feet) ought to be enough to do full underdeck, hull & deck top in one length if one is really careful with the offcuts for other uses. Being new to epoxy I wondered about the wisdom of putting the deck assembly & underside glassing so early in the manual... yes it doesn’t show but it does use 1/3 of the glass provided... so I’m saving that operation for the last 2/3’rds of my project’s assembly. I wanted some latitude for messing with these components before I got to the areas that would matter more so ordered up some 4 oz. 60” wide and 6 oz. 38” wide cloth before I got started.

Dillon assured me if I ran short there would be more available (Free? Doubtful, but I haven’t asked...) but as I’ve only done the hull bottom with part of what came in the kit so far I’m willing to proceed with what’s left for the deck ‘sandwich’.

Sufficient overlap amidships I’d have to think is important for hull integrity? I’ll be watching for additional comments as this thread gets added to. I’m not disabused to do overlap seams in the lengthwise coverage of either top or bottom of deck in that I’d always planned on painting everything exposed to wind, water & sunlight anyway. Paint does away with unnecessary fretting over appearance. And having to renew varnish periodically as well!

spclark · 2 May 2020 4:51 pm

Bergen_Guy[/quote wrote:

...my plan had been to cut the glass cloth down the middle of to cockpit to allow the edges to move apart and get a bit more overlap.

The Texas builder did just that so he’s reported. Be my plan when that step’s in line!

MartinC · 3 May 2020 8:37 am

As I now have some waiting time while my fibreglass arrives, I have been looking at the deck fittings and rigging. I designed a lug yawl rig for a ‘pocket cruiser’ and sailed her for many years and discovered few wrinkles which may be of interest.

1. The mizzen. The mizzen tends to go up and stay up and needs very little attention. The only rope I tended to use was the sheet, which I simply slackened off when mooring and let the sail flap. As you never moor downwind, letting it flap is not a problem, and on a Waterlust it is well out of the way. As you don’t need to get to them, I am tempted to put horn cleats on the mast for the halyard and downhaul to keep these ropes out of the cockpit.

2. I think the best way to stow the mainsail when underway on a small lug rig (as opposed to a gaff rig) is not to lower it. I use a boom lift to raise the end of the boom to the top of the mast (‘scandalising’ the sail) and simply drop the halyard. You can put a bungee around everything to stop it all flapping about. This keeps the spars and sail out of the cockpit and out of vision. Lazyjacks are not worth the bother on a boat this size. I have tried them and there is too much rope to get tangled.

3. The boom lift will need another block at the top and bottom of the mast, but it can be tied on the same deck cleat as the halyard. Underneath it - as you always need the halyard first. For this reason I am buying double blocks for the top and bottom of the mast for both the main and the mizzen (as a boom lift on the mizzen can also be handy).

4. Personally, I would position the rudder uphaul and downhaul together and near the centre of the boat (within reach from both sides). This is because you always need to operate them together and in a hurry, and if they are spaced apart, always when you are on the wrong side of the boat.

5. To stop the boom falling away from the mast when the wind is on the ‘wrong’ side, simply make the halyard a little longer and attach the end to the forward end of the boom bringing it back (horizontal) around the mast to the lifting position on the boom where it goes around a block and up the mast.

6. Nothing to do with the lug rig, but I am using pad eyes (rather than cleats) on the bow and stern as I can’t foresee a situation when I would need a cleat and would rather have permanently attached painters/mooring warps leading back into the cockpit.

7. Positioning of aft inspection hatch. We will need to reach the rudder gudgeons and the underside of the pad eye (holding the mizzen sheet block) to reinforce the deck here.

I am sure there is more, and I would welcome any tips from anyone else. I am always learning!

MartinC · 3 May 2020 9:53 am

Thinking about it....It must make sense to fit the rudder gudgeons (and perhaps any deck reinforcement on the underside to take deck fittings) before fitting the deck. Or am I overthinking this?

spclark · 3 May 2020 11:56 am

MartinC your two posts there answer lots of questions I haven’t even thought of yet! All your rigging thoughts are the result of years of experience which, compared to my weeks (for the most part; occasional sailor, over 40 years ago) are most timely as I’m beginning to realize how little real knowledge I can claim on which to make decisions about what hardware to
start looking for!

Which in a roundabout manner brings me to your last thought: YES! Any hull reinforcement where gudgeons’ll get secured ought best be installed before the deck goes on! That one I’d seen coming, seems intuitive enough given the nature of the dimensions back there.

(I’d dearly love to be looking over your shoulder when you go shopping for hardware (chandlers or virtually) but as you’re across the pond might you be willing to share your shopping list? Maybe even to the point of e-mailing copies of your on-line selections or receipts? Give me a better idea of what’s suitable for the tasks assigned... my e-mail’s available if you’re using the desktop version of this forum software, or I can send it to you by PM maybe?)

MartinC · 3 May 2020 3:36 pm

Absolutely no problem at all publishing the hardware shopping list with quantities, sizes and prices when the time comes. In most part I agree with all of Dillan's thoughts except where I have detailed above. The lug rig is fantastically versatile and easy to use, as long as you can control the raising and lowering, as unlike a gaff rigged boat, the whole lot comes down all at once and ends up on the deck- spars, sails, rigging the lot - and there isn't very much deck on the Waterlust, so it is likely to end up in the water. This is why I like to keep the sails up (furled or unfurled) all, or at least most, of the time.

Although I have a vague idea of what I want at the moment, I won't start shopping until I can sit in the finished boat and I can see how much space there is and what I can and can't reach. My layout will be a little different to yours as I am dispensing with the aft mast position and plan to sail by sitting on the back (and side) of the coaming whilst my wife pedals! At least that's the plan at the moment; much will depend on the comfort I am able to build in for the pedaller.

MartinC · 3 May 2020 3:56 pm

PS I don't suppose you heard from Dillon regarding the fitting of the gudgeons ?

spclark · 3 May 2020 6:28 pm

MartinC wrote:

PS I don't suppose you heard from Dillon regarding the fitting of the gudgeons ?

Kinda, but not specifically about mounting them before deck’s bonded in place. To me (and our Texas builder) it’s just a common sense decision ->

I did send D. the same drawing I posted here earlier, with a comment about the pintles not appearing to be on the same axis.

What I received in reply:

“Hard to tell from that image, but yes - the pintles must be on the same axis. I'll usually install the gudgeons, first, then use those tho help line up the pintles on the cassette.”

- which is also a common sense interpretation I think! I myself'd use a length of 3/8” steel dowel stock as an alignment gage to ensure pintle axis holes are lined up before drilling bolt holes for mounting gudgeons, and describing how I'd expect to mount those critical hardware items.

I'm taking on the task of sorting out the manual's hardware schedule, comparing it to what our Texan sent me, then perhaps setting up a spreadsheet with links for appropriate items for those various bits & pieces in two or three suppliers' websites.

Unless I happen to get back to working on actually furthering progress on my rudder assembly & daggerboard, and prepping my cockpit prior to priming for paint. Too nice a day here to work on it though, getting some gardening tasks done before it turns off chilly again for a few days....

Last edited by spclark (3 May 2020 7:04 pm)

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