Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

*Loud cheers from Norway*  Massive congratulations Martin! Well done indeed. You are the first of us to have a fully rigged ship on the water!  How exciting, and I am so glad that you are happy with her. I look forward very much to photos and a video if that's in the works.

Here I had a few trips to the chandlers to pick up things I had forgotten, but now think I have everything I need to get underway with the sails up. I am looking foward to that very much, especially after you positive report Martin.

I konw what you mean about the till tether, at first I though: Is that really necesary? But I agree, it's an important part of the deal with that set up. My current thinking is that I use a long line for the rope that is used to cleat the tiller in place, and simply take the end of that on board and tie it off somewhere.

Congratulations again!

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Guy..and for all your support and help through this web site. It would have been very much more difficult to do without you and SP.
Keep in touch!

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hope this works! here is the launch:-

https://youtu.be/Bal4VNmhLc8

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Video comes up as private - may need a change to privacy settings!

I also echo your sentiment Martin, I have found this forum, yourself and SP a wonderful source of support, inspiration and advice during the build, and has made the whole thing even more enjoyable.

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Guy. Try it now. (As you may have guessed I am not good at the tech stuff!)

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

YES! woohoo :-) looks like a lovely day, and Gaia is looking wonderful.

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (16 Sep 2020 7:40 am)

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I am afraid these aren't very good and don't tell you very much, but they do at least prove that Gaia is now on the water!

https://youtu.be/LEKOd1Rba2E
https://youtu.be/wxKED7lKKUg

spclark

Member

From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA

Registered: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 465

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

HA! Exciting imagery there, I’m inspired even more now to continue!

Had a brief break in progress while I sussed out a roof leak that appeared a week ago above my wife’s bathroom. Seems the roof vent for her bath fan was poorly installed years ago before we bought the place. Spent Saturday pulling wet fiberglass insulation off ceiling in attic, then Monday sourcing new vent & getting that installed. Now I wait for NEXT rainstorms to see whether I missed something, or whether my roofing skills are up to the challenge!

Awesome progress Michael, that Mirage drive really moves this design! Can’t wait to see you under sail!

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin, SP,

I am crossing fingers for a first sail on Saturday. Let's see if I manage to get any video.  It's such a shame that the likelihood of actually sailing the three boats together in the same place is so small, that would have been a nice way to round off our builds. Virtual cruises will have to do. I will keep you posted.

Guy

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Good luck Guy!
'Fair winds and following seas'

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

https://youtu.be/_8Dk_nHRuws

We have sailed!

spclark

Member

From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA

Registered: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 465

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Outstanding debut B_G!

(I’m so jealous of your progress!) I’m painting my deck this weekend; did first coat last night, expect to wet-sand it after dinner then add a second coat later this evening. Deck’s a cream color, will highlight coaming in the same bright red as the top strake’ll be on either side. Be a rubrail in Deks Olje #1-finished black locust wood I’ve made up separating the red strakes from the cream deck. Then hatch’ll be a green-grey that’s the back half of my cockpit, with the toggles in that bright red for accents.

We’ll all sail ‘together’ once I’m launched, if only in our hearts!

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Well done Guy!

I had the same mainsail crease, and found that the spar needs to be lifted with the halyard fixing (lashing) further aft. This will sort it out.

I agree about the mast weight. I will be taking some weight off mine at the top this winter. I might also experiment with bamboo.

Thinking that this might be an issue, I spoke to Dillon at an early stage about the possibility of splitting the mast along its length and building a hollow mast. I didn't do it at the time as I thought I would sail the boat first and it is always something that can be done later. If you are interested I will post Dillon's comments.

I hope to have a proper sail later next week and I will try and post a video.

Well done SP. You seem to be making good progress. Do post some pictures of your paintwork as it sounds great.

spclark

Member

From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA

Registered: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 465

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Please post Dillon’s comments about mast weight. Jeff Perkins (in TX) had only Douglas Fir available, built his hollow. I used Sitka Spruce, three laminations all solid. Taking a bit out of the center one wouldn’t have lessened its weight much; I think it ended up @ 5+ kg / 12 lbs on a digital bathroom scale after shaping tapers & radiusing corners. That’s the raw wood blank, as yet unsanded or finished.

Too, those main spars can be tapered side to side as well as where the plans’ call for taper on top & bottom with the sail’s side left straight. And keep hardware to absolute minimum aloft! Fairleads where possible, light weight blocks if necessary.

Pics of paint’d be pretty boring presently. Prolly best saved for when it’s all done & I’m happy with results. I’d be done by now if’n I’d gone with urethane instead of oil base enamel! Drying time & need to wet-sand between coats really lengthens the schedule.

Last edited by spclark (20 Sep 2020 12:48 pm)

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Gents,  It was wonderful to get on the water and under sail.  Yes, I would be very interested to hear Dillon's comments about the mast.

I think mine is made of Scots pine (if my translation of the Norwegian is correct) I have not weighed it, but might do that to compare.

I suspect it's also something one will get used to with time. I guess part of it is just sailing the boat pretty 'upright' most of the time so that you don't give the rig the chance to get a large rolling moment on the hull. At one point I was sufficiently heeled over to drag the boom in the water. I was sitting down 'in' the boat at the time. As the roll continued I shot out of my seat and headed to the windward rail, which redressed the situation pretty quickly, but I was thinking for a few seconds that I should probably not have been filming on my phone, and that a capsize in these low winds would be rather embarrassing.  I was grateful there wasn't more wind at that moment, but on reflection, I think the key factor was that I allowed so much heel to develop, and that it was probably the rig that was rolling, rather than a press from the wind.  Later on I sailed for a bit with some 'proper' wind, and I sat very comfortably on the side-deck, with no sensation that the whole set up was unstable at all.

As for the halyard hoist location, how far back did you move it Martin?  I drilled a hole in the spar so any modification I do will have to be ropework, or possibly adding an eye of some sort outside the spar.  I did buy some leather to leather the yard and boom, but first I am sailing without, that can be a project for freezing days in winter.

Today I made an 'outdoor storage' cover from a few tarps so that she can sit outside in the rain without filling up. I had an idea to make myself something like SP's rather wonderful looking Harken hoist, but I realise I don't have room with the way our garage door works.

Good luck with the next coats of paint SP, I am looking forward very much to seeing how she is going to turn out!

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (20 Sep 2020 1:49 pm)

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Dillon's reply to my query on hollow masts was:-  'I think a hollow mast is a great idea for this boat!  You can build a hollow box-section spar, a birdsmouth mast, or simply cut the blank in half (lengthwise), use a router to hollow out the interior faces of the two sections, and glue them back together'...... And he referred me to this article https://www.woodenboat.com/whiskey_plan … oden-masts
I'll measure the halyard hoist position Guy and get back to you.

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

PS It is not something I am going to do in a hurry (and as I don't have a router I will have to get someone else to do anyway), but I understand that the rule of thumb is that with a wall thickness of 20% of the diameter of the spar, the mast will actually be stronger than a solid mast !

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi Guy.
I have measured my 'hoist location', and from the centre of the mast to the tip of the spar it is 980mm as opposed to 921mm in the manual. Only about 2.25" difference I know, but it does make a difference to my sail. I guess all sails and rigs will be slightly different and you may have the sail laced closer or further away from the tip of the spar, so it would be worth experimenting before doing anything too final!
For info, my boom tip is about 680mm in front of the mast centre (compared with 635mm in the manual) and this seems to work for me.

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin - thanks very much for those.

I see that I do have a bit of 'wiggle room' on the yard where I can position the sail further forward just by lacing it with a shorter lacing at the luff a longer at the leach. I will give that a go before I do anything more drastic! Thanks again.

I just spent a bit of time in the garage sorting the reefing lines for the second reef. I am using tiny little cheek blocks on the boom, and have set it up 'single line' with a small cleat set up quite a long way aft on the boom to tie the ting off with. I will be interested to see how well it works in practice, and if I have got the blocks in a good position.

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I have just returned from an 'interesting' experience on the Norfolk Broads.
The weather was lovely with just a gentle breeze and I was looking forward to a good sail. But it wasn't to be!
I stupidly got the mainsheet caught during a gust and capsized. No problem I thought. Gaia was floating very high in the water and I swam around to the other side and sat on the dagger board. Up she came very easily but then the fun started! It is simply impossible to climb aboard after a capsize. The bow is too high. Stern access is blocked by the mizzen and if you try to climb in over the side she simply flips back over as she is so 'slim'. She is astonishingly 'tippy' when full of water.
I was in the water for about an hour and ended up swimming Gaia to a pontoon quite a long way away where I bailed her out and peddled exhausted back to the slipway.
I have emailed Dillon to see if I have done anything wrong or if there is a boarding technique, but in the meantime, I would urge you Guy (and SP when you are ready) not to go too far away from shore until we have found a solution to this issue. If there had not been a handy pontoon I don't know what I would have done!

spclark

Member

From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA

Registered: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 465

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Ooof... exasperating experience! Hope the water was warm!

Yes, as my hull’s taken shape I’ve been imagining such a scenario as you’ve described. Capsize - under any circumstances - is an unwelcome event.

My thinking is that no launch should happen without some means by which a bailer can be easily reached from outside the swamped hull. Even then, once a pretty large amount of water’s been put back where it belongs, the high freeboard of this design will mean the unfortunate sailor will have to be pretty agile in ‘getting a leg up’ above the coaming once their weight’s being carried by the canted hull.

My plans include a practice dunking or two in water both shallow and warm enough that the hazards of a lengthened effort over getting back aboard isn’t too much of a challenge done single-handed at age 72....

Dillon and I have briefly discussed adding amas to his design. I wonder if after you’ve related this experience to him he might feel sufficient motivation to bring his ideas further towards something we might benefit from?

Glad you’re OK too, and thanks for bringing news of this to us here.

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Blimey! That sounds like a bit of an ordeal, I am glad to hear it ended well. Thanks very much for sharing that experience with us. I did some capsize recovery tests with the kids on our first day afloat, but that was without the rig, which must make the whole proposition rather more challenging.  I think I will do some more tests as soon as I can get on the water again and will report back. I had rather had my minds eye set on some passages out to skerries that lie to seaward of Bergen, but I think I will stick to the big lake by the house till ‘sea trials’ are completed and a ‘standard operating procedure’ is established for all the likely eventualities. I can see that reefing ‘at sea’ is also something I want to test out. Keep us posted as the experience builds! Fair winds.

Bergen_Guy

Member

Registered: 6 Feb 2020

Posts: 352

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

http://www.solwaydory.co.uk/articles/ca … ng-canoes/  Food for thought, though the suggestion of taking the rig out is probably not practical in our case.

MartinC

Member

Registered: 3 Apr 2020

Posts: 341

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks both. Yes, I'm fine, just bruised pride!

Bailing from outside the boat isn't an option I'm afraid. I tried this, but even the act of leaning on the side of the boat to get the bailing hand inside was enough to tip her back over. I did lower the mainsail and this helped with stability a bit.

The solway article was interesting Guy. Thanks. I suspect that even if you did get the mast out, the trailing rig would be enough to capsize her again and then you would be in such a tangle you would never right her.

However, I am not giving up! I am sure there is an answer. I wonder if removing the mizzen mast and rig might help with stability and allow you to scramble over the stern, like I was taught to do many decades ago with a canoe?

I'll let you know what Dillon suggests.

spclark

Member

From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA

Registered: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 465

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Very important we get this sorted! I can’t imagine being dunked then not being able to scoop enough water out of the swamped hull to get it stabilized once again.

My first attempts at sailing will be with the main alone, in the midships pocket. Figured it’s easier to deal with just one sail “getting to know her” rather than adding another set of lines even if they’re rarely touched once underway. Your post’s convinced me there’s yet one more fairly important factor to consider.

That Solway article brings up a useful idea: side buoyancy bags -

http://www.solwaydory.co.uk/products/accessories/

- so those side compartments under the deck don’t trap water in the event of a mishap.

Be interested knowing what their dimensions might be, whether they’d fit in out hulls, even if not inflated to 100% design capacity.

Last edited by spclark (23 Sep 2020 12:51 am)