Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

MartinC · 10 Apr 2020 7:00 am

Looks really good to me! Well done!
I am just starting on the inside floor. Any tips?
I assume you put the glass in whilst the fillets are still wet? This isn't made clear in the manual.
Would you recommend spending time cutting the glass exactly to size (using patterns) beforehand, to try and avoid the messy business of moving the glass around wet?
What size fillets do you recomend, and what consistency? 'Peanut butter' or more runny?

Bergen_Guy · 10 Apr 2020 8:51 am

Peanut butter for the fillets. It needs to hold its shape without sagging. Filet size for me was about a finger radius for the small parts inside, and 18mm radius in the stems.

I would cut the glass almost to size before you get it wet. I wouldn’t go so far as making patterns, but I did use small pins to hold it in place and stop it flapping about all over the place (the ones you use on cork boards) It’s very hard to move around once it’s wet. I watched a few YouTube videos / read the CLC builders tips sites before starting out. I would also start in the second compartment from the front, it’s not visible in the end, and is easier than the bow and stern compartments. I did the main cockpit last as it’s largest and most visible. Then trim / tidy up as much as you can once the epoxy has gelled - it’s way easier to sort out the edges before the epoxy is fully cured. The hardest part I found was keeping it stuck down over the join between the floor and panel 1, it was always lifting out.

Good luck!

MartinC · 10 Apr 2020 9:04 am

Thank very much Guy. Huge help.
I can see the issue of the join between the floor and panel 1. I might put a small fillet in here before glassing.
Can you do the frame fillets first and then the glassing when the frames are dry or is it better to put the glass on the wet frame fillets?

Bergen_Guy · 10 Apr 2020 11:55 am

If you can glass over wet fillets that’s probably better. A fillet between bottom and panel 1 might help with a neat glass job...

spclark · 10 Apr 2020 1:39 pm

Bergen_Guy wrote:

If you can glass over wet fillets that’s probably better. A fillet between bottom and panel 1 might help with a neat glass job...

That was my approach, contrary to manual's instructions.

Prior to beginning my kit's assembly I watched several videos in the collection about stitch & glue technique over at OffCenterHarbor.com. Allowing for the differences between what I'd call 'butt-edge contact" between adjacent panels - contact made only along one edge of each panel, if panels aren't beveled first - and the panel lap-joint simulation achieved by CNC on this design, I added fillets at the inner joint between bottom and panels #1. Those got covered with the 6 oz fiberglass cloth as indicated and two coats of unthickened epoxy well after those fillets had cured hard.

I did take pains though to lightly drum-sand them smooth before fitting the 'glass cloth, which I'd cut roughly to shape after making a paper pattern so as to minimize the angst over dealing with 38" wide cloth where the portion destined to remain in place may have been only 15" - 20". Cuts for frame-fitting though were done as I applied the first coat of epoxy to bond cloth to plywood.

Furthering what I felt would be an added benefit of strength, I bias-cut strips of 4 oz cloth that I then applied over fillets I'd put above the square-edge planks at the panel 1 > panel 2 and panel 2 > panel 3 lap joint, after I'd wet the sanded-smooth fillets with unthickened epoxy.

In the pic here there's a detail showing the fillets just above where the portion I've highlighted appears in the larger image:

I've been accused of over-engineering before, but as this kit is my first attempt at stitch & glue I felt some hesitation with placing my faith entirely upon following CLC'S instructions to the letter. To my mind, even with a well-saturated lap joint, I felt adding a bit of reinforcement at these seams far outweighed any minor weight gain. It's not a race canoe after all, and as I'm an inexperienced sailor at best I expect a few hard knocks will happen in her future use.

So hull's been fully coated on the outside, left smooth. Back upright now I'm sanding the interior in preparation for adding the second unthickened coat of epoxy where necessary, otherwise it'll be prime then paint interior: white for storage and buoyancy lockers, some muted colors for the cockpit that'll be exposed to sunlight. Then I'll begin assembling the deck, which I've left for last.

Main mast's ready for final sanding, cutting to length. I may wrap the base 16" with a layer of 6 oz cloth too, make it waterproof and more slippery for mounting. Mizzen mast blank's been laminated but needs finishing. Spars are just boards presently, some need glueing up but they all need work.

Keep up with your projects gents, keep the reports coming and pictures as you see fit. I'll do the same but while I'm willing to lend moral support you're both deserving of the full experience you've undertaken!

MartinC · 10 Apr 2020 2:08 pm

Many thanks both.
Bringing up the rear, I am not contributing very much to this discussion I'm afraid!
However, I do have one comment, as I did my spars before anything else. Do check that the length of the spar blanks are correct in relation to corresponding part of the sails before drilling, shaping and varnishing them. Dillon may have made adjustments after mine, but I found that the mizzen boom and gaff spars were too short. ie shorter than the corresponding part of the sail!
New blanks were sent out as soon as this problem was identified, so no problem, except that I had already shaped them and given them 10 coats of varnish!

spclark · 10 Apr 2020 4:13 pm

Oooo... that’s something I haven’t checked yet!

Ordered sails 2 years after receiving kit, they came a year before I started roughing out spruce to glue up blanks.
I left blanks long on general principal... but I have to wonder how/why/when specs changed that’d end up costing anyone time wasted.

Looked at sails after they arrived but never got ‘em opened up. Will check into this over w/e, post what I discover.
u

Bergen_Guy · 10 Apr 2020 4:38 pm

Ah - good spot there! I have not yet ordered spars and sails. I may in the end source wood for the spars here, and look at getting sails made locally. I have seen sail plans somewhere but can’t seem to find the dimensions when I last went hunting online.

Today I stated work on the external filet between the bottom panel and panel 1. Took more gloop than I had expected, but it’s looking ok now. I have backed off a bit on the direct heat, but do have some heating in there as it’s only a few degrees C outside.

Bergen_Guy · 10 Apr 2020 4:41 pm

SP - you really are doing a most thorough job on your build! I am impressed. It’s going to be one solid vessel when you are done. I am somewhat less patient!

Here’s today’s fillet! Ended up doing most of the finishing with my bent butter knife rather than a meths soaked finger, it somehow seemed to work better like that today!

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (10 Apr 2020 4:42 pm)

spclark · 10 Apr 2020 6:46 pm

I have no choice BUT to be patient! Just turned 71 last Monday, laid off from part-time job for a month now. This is my ‘retirement’ project, something to fill my days... once I get there!

Bergen_Guy · 11 Apr 2020 9:00 am

Congratulations on the birthday! I am sorry to hear about you being made redundant from your job. Good to have something in the garage to focus on!

MartinC · 11 Apr 2020 12:53 pm

Belated happy birthday SP!
Maybe it is just me, but I have found that my 'projects' in life have been far more fulfilling than my 'jobs'. Many men (including me) would be proud to have achieved what you have. I can't wait to see her in the water.
Do either of you have boat names yet? Mine is 'Gaia'.

Bergen_Guy · 11 Apr 2020 1:22 pm

Great name Martin! (I used to dream of crossing oceans on a wharram cat, so the name resonates). We have not chosen a name yet, but will probably try and find something Scandinavian / Viking. The boys, who just watched the Swallows and Amazons film (an older one, not the new one) obviously thought Swallow or Amazon would be a good idea, but I am hoping to steer them away from that! Colour schemes have developed a bit as I research into easily available paints. Jotun looks t he easiest to source, which has a limited colour range of ‘easy gloss’ but the shipolin looks like you can get in any colour you want. Erring now towards a very dark blue hull with red upper strake.

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (11 Apr 2020 1:23 pm)

MartinC · 11 Apr 2020 3:05 pm

I agree the boat shape lends itself to a Viking name, although I do thoroughly approve of Swallows and Amazons!

Arthur Ransom lived around here (East Anglia) and the Nancy Blacket still sails our local estuaries of the Blyth, Deben, Orwell and Stour, where I have sailed most of my life.

With 'Gaia' I hope to re-live my Swallows and Amazons childhood memories, as the Norfolk Broads are only 20 minutes drive away.

MartinG · 11 Apr 2020 3:18 pm

OK here's another Martin!

I am building a Richard Woods design catamaran up here in the English Lake District (oddly enough about 4 miles from Fyne Boats!).

The village where I live - Arnside - had a long history of boat building up until the 1960's. One of the boats they built was Arthur Ransome's "Amazon", originally as a Morecambe Bay prawner (built around 1912 I believe).

Because of that connection, I have named my boat "Swift". But when I was recently in Richmond, North Yorkshire, I read on a tourist information sign that the River Swale which runs through the town (or to be more accurate, below it) is named after the Old English word for swallow which was "Suala". I'm guessing there may well be a Norse connection there. I wish now I had named my boat "Suala" but anyway, there's a suggestion for you Bergen Guy!

Last edited by MartinG (11 Apr 2020 3:19 pm)

Bergen_Guy · 11 Apr 2020 4:00 pm

Hi other Martin!

Thats a great tip - I will have to do some reading! Swallows here are called 'Svaler' but I do like Suala, it also would give a connection to the Yorkshire parts of the family.

The dark blue and red is also a bit of a swallow ish colour scheme. These colours I can source at the local hardware store!

Bergen_Guy · 11 Apr 2020 6:00 pm

Today’s real work - apart from sourcing proper stainless screws, was ‘fillet au skeg’ !

This time did the whole job with my trusty bent knife and then went over it with a meths soaked gloved finger. I drilled slightly larger pilot holes than expected in the hull, the two sheets of glass on ether side of the bottom panel really are stiff and things started making crunching sounds while I was dry fitting the skeg, so I pulled everything out and drilled about 0.5mm larger holes, all when much more smoothly the second time. It was also the first joint, I think, which started off with unthickened epoxy on the new wood surface, then ‘mustard’ thick epoxy in the joint, then peanut butter gloop for the fillet. Normally I keep all my epoxy and fillers inside, but today they came out to the garage so I could do the various stages of adding thickeners without going back inside.

Next up is lots of epoxy on the outside surfaces.

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (11 Apr 2020 6:01 pm)

Bergen_Guy · 12 Apr 2020 10:13 am

Happy Easter waterlust canoe folks! Don’t know if I will get any more done today, but if I do then it’s filleting the two remaining panel joints. I suspect those will be a bit quicker than the panel 1 panel 2 joint which took a lot of filler. The panel 3 panel 4 joint is almost flush so won’t get much more than a squeeze of unthickened epoxy, and a tiny fillet to smooth the transition. Hope the Easter bunny bought you some eggs!

MartinC · 12 Apr 2020 12:20 pm

Happy Easter to you you and yours!
I have started on the glassing of the floor, taking it slowly as I read your and SP's comments about it being messy. Yours was a good tip about starting with the least visible compartment first. The learning curve for fillets is quite steep, but the first is definitely the worst and therefore best hidden!
How are you getting on SP?

spclark · 12 Apr 2020 2:21 pm

Not bad, thanks. Finished sanding interior bits yesterday that'd been coated once before I flipped hull over to work on outer hull. Wiped everything down with water-dampened microfiber cloth after vacuuming everything as best I could, let it all dry overnight.

Today I'm putting last epoxy coat onto interior parts that will get painted: storage forward of frame 2, interior compartments under drive console. That way I then can add console cap piece next & what'll get covered up will be a lot easier to see into (having been painted white) once access hatches have been fitted.

Next will be painting cockpit floor and top of drive console, then add those two deck stringers that otherwise would be in the way.

We're getting some repeat winter storm weather here the next few days so I may unpack my sails on a newly-swept basement floor so I can measure what has to fit the spars I've already begun. Hoping there's no surprise in store....

I explored with Dillon what might be worth adding to better accommodate oars and the oarlocks they'd need to work properly some months back. He allowed that some deck reinforcement between frames 3 & 4 might be worth the trouble. So after I fit those deck stringers I expect to add some laminated pieces of 6mm okoume plywood (2, maybe 3 layers?) that'd then be bonded to the underside of the deck, add strength. Then I can determine where best to place oarlocks.

Rower's seat ought to be just aft of daggerboard trunk so weight just behind doesn't alter trim to much. Skeg will help limit weathercocking but putting that forward freeboard up into the air when under oars isn't a good idea at all if the wind's anywhere forward a'beam!

Happy Easter to you all!

Last edited by spclark (12 Apr 2020 2:31 pm)

Bergen_Guy · 12 Apr 2020 4:10 pm

I will be interested to see how you get on with the rowing set up SP! could be a fun option. Will you be using a fixed seat? I was half thinking if I tried rowing I would use one of the ‘drop in’ sliding seat setups.

spclark · 12 Apr 2020 5:11 pm

No, impractical in that sliders usually get fitted to watercraft with much less freeboard.

Explored fitting a Piantedosi from CLC ($$$) then a DIY from a fellow up in Washington state that I bought plans for (which if you want I'll sell you for the cost of postage!) but after a brief discussion with Dillon decided using the seat I bought (from CLC) will work fine if raised a bit higher & flipped front-to-back.

Curiously just a few minutes ago with my hull upright and suspended in the Harken Hoister I found it balances perfectly with the aft strap about 6" behind the daggerboard trunk, right about where the seat back would get positioned so the back itself can angle properly! In this reversed position, that's towards the bow of course....

Wondering too if I could engineer some way to set up pedal-steering whilst rowing... run lines from rudder yolk to pedals set in back of cockpit, maybe either side of a fixed footrest? Interesting challenge I think.

If this virus thing prevents my getting my Waterlust launched this season I may hack making my own oars.... Got copious Sitka spruce material stashed in my basement. Some maple, birch, beechnut, white ash too if I need a bit of weight for balance somewhere.

Oh and I checked with another Waterlust builder (in Texas, built a PocketShip first!) about that sails dimension question? He allows that his fit perfectly. I have yet to unpack mine, see how they measure up against the spars I made according to the dimensions in the build manual that came with my kit.

Last edited by spclark (12 Apr 2020 5:19 pm)

Bergen_Guy · 13 Apr 2020 3:51 pm

Any thoughts on glassing the skeg? I am almost ready to apply epoxy to the outside and thought the skeg is likely to see a lot of abrasion and maybe using some of my glass off cuts might be a good idea. Don’t think it’s mentioned in the manual, but wondered what the rest of you were doing?

spclark · 13 Apr 2020 5:19 pm

No, it’s not, but then neither is wrapping mast pockets in ‘glass, or adding ‘glass to where they join frames.

I chose to do both but as yet not the skeg. My thoughts are any damage might be more easily repaired w/o having to deal with ‘glass too. It’s pretty shallow draft, unlike daggerboard that’s really going to resist any encounters with stuff under water. THAT gets two layers of ‘glass, so is pretty sturdy.

I’m adding a second layer of bias-laid 4 oz. cloth to my rudder today, mostly ‘cause I have the cloth and I think it’d benefit in the event the kick-up is slow in reacting sometime later on. There’s quite a bit of ‘clearance’ between rudder and its console cheeks where it pivots, so a bit more ‘glass ought to help reduce that ‘slop’. I have some 1/16” Delrin I’ll be making washers out of too, try to get clearance to acceptable dimension so pivot’s not stressed too much.

Bergen_Guy · 13 Apr 2020 9:52 pm

Good point on the maintenance front, much easier to rub down and paint rather than breaking out the glass again!

Got the first epoxy coat on the hull this evening.

Went really well, I used 5 pumps in the first batch, and should have left it at four, the first lot started to go off when I was half way down the second side. Not much wasted, but as I only needed one more pump to finish the job, 3 and 3 would have been a more even split. Happy I managed to get good coverage though, feeling more optimistic that I won’t need extra resin. Still two big glassing jobs to go on the deck though, so let’s see...

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (13 Apr 2020 9:52 pm)

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