Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

spclark · 4 Apr 2023 3:52 am

Tough job working in that space MartinC! I'd forgotten you have a 'modded' deck layout aft, with another frame well ahead of what the kit provides, the one with big holes innit.

In my one capsize (so far) that aft compartment sat high enough when I got the hull upright I don't think there was more than maybe 2"/5 cm of water at that frame. Deepest was forward in the cockpit, maybe three, four times deeper? Dunno, but the bilge pump I'd fitted saved the day, made short work of emptying 95% of what had come in while she was sideways with me (mistakenly) trying to right her from the side I'd gone over on with both sails still up. I held to the port side for maybe ten minutes watching the water level drop before making my second reboarding effort, which was successful.

You planning on doing any capsize / re-righting exercises before venturing out on an extended excursion I hope? I do, with mine, both with and without the 'configurable' ballast added forward as well as the weighted daggerboard.

Lots to look forward to once our 2023 sailing season arrives here....

Last edited by spclark (4 Apr 2023 3:53 am)

MartinC · 4 Apr 2023 8:29 am

Thanks for your info. on 'swamping' SP.

Unfortunately, I no longer have access to a pool for capsize testing and the Norfolk Broads aren't great for this, as getting a capsized craft to the bank (and out) is difficult/impossible. (I was in the water for over an hour on my first unplanned capsize).

However, with the benefit of your experiences and Guy's and Chuck's, I feel confident that with the amount of ballast we have all now settled on, righting and re-boarding shouldn't be a problem. I will eagerly watch out for your further sea trials!

Bergen_Guy · 19 Apr 2023 9:13 am

Oh that is a super looking hatch Martin! I must admit the same idea had been going around in my head - something for next winter perhaps! I must get a fresh coat of varnish on soon and finally get my mainsheet cleat fitted. I also will be moving the sheeting for the mizzen out to the side deck so that I can adjust the mizzen from seated without having to reach behind me, which I find an irritation. I must also give my new hollow wooden mast a try out! So much do do, and with the kids growing and wanting ferrying left right and centre, so little time!

I hope spring is treating you all well and that your sailing seasons are enjoyable!

Chuck · 20 Apr 2023 5:28 am

Hi Martin -- your hatch looks wonderful and I'm eager to hear about its practical performance!

And Guy -- I'd also love to hear more about your hollow mast -- do you like it? What are its dimensions (and wall thickness?). Do you have photos?

As for me, I've been out once about a month ago furring an unusually warm spell, but it was only peddling for lack of wind.

I'm gearing up for the real start of the season soon, and still working on the jib...

spclark · 25 Apr 2023 12:43 pm

Seems I've missed a message about Chuck's last post, guess I need to re-up once again.

We had a warm spell up here also week before last but nothing I could take advantage of owing to a special project where I work. Did involve water though so there's that.

On another tack I received an interesting query this morning from out of right field – details follow:

Last edited by spclark (25 Apr 2023 11:49 pm)

spclark · 25 Apr 2023 9:55 pm

The editor of Small Boats Magazine, Christopher Cunningham, is looking for a Waterlust builder/owner who'd be interested in writing a review for publication.

There's a nice compensation offer attached to the effort but as I'm well aware you folks have much more experience using your builds as they were intended than I can lay claim to so I'm posting this on his behalf.

Besides that I'm no writer.

His e-mail: chris.cunningham@woodenboat.com

MartinC · 27 Apr 2023 12:02 pm

Thanks SP. I have dropped Christopher Cunningham a line even thopugh Gaia is a bit non-standard!
At last the weather is looking good here so I hope to get on the water next week.

Chuck · 7 May 2023 6:34 pm

I went out sailing for the first time yesterday in a nice easy breeze of 5-7 knots. The GPS had me going 2.5-3.5 knots the majority of the time. It was mostly beam reaches the entire sail, but I did beat upwind a bit to see how my tacking angles were doing:

I was happy I was reaching much closer to the 100 degree tacking angle that I understand is a good goal for this rig. The difference from previous sails: I was the only person in the boat (last year I often sailed with crew). I think the weight balance yesterday was much further forward, which was what probably made the difference. The other thing I did before the sail was to plane the trailing edge of my foils so the they finished off at a ~45 degree angle instead of a square back edge about 1mm wide I previously had. I don't expect this to have made much difference, but I hear the the hydrodynamics is a little better without an abrupt square trailing edge...

Still working on that jib! There is precious little side deck for all the additional hardware to mount to and still leave room to sit out

Last edited by Chuck (7 May 2023 6:37 pm)

MartinC · 10 May 2023 7:30 am

Well done Chuck!
I am sure you are right about weight distribution. Weight further forward will assist upwind performance.
I am a bit skeptical about the benefits of a jib on this boat, but I greatly admire all your innovative experimentation. A man after my own heart!
I have sailed with a jib on a lugg rigged boat and one thing to be aware of is the tendancy of the leech of the jib (and the jib sheets) to get fouled on the front end of the boom on every tack. You my feel that this is a small point, but believe me it is extremely tiresome to have to crawl forward every time to release them. The solution lies in the cut of the jib and the positioning of the jib sheet fairleads, so it is worth experimenting with this before you go to the expense of getting your jib made.
Good luck!

spclark · 3 Jun 2023 1:34 pm

Anything new to report from you others?

Not much here other than it's hot suddenly. I'd been pondering trying to make the trek to Lake City MN this weekend for the annual Lake Pepin Messabout. A number of things have stalled my progress towards that goal.

Work on aka hinge/latch mods continues; I have one pair of each for one side laid up now, want to finish shaping them before starting layup of second side's pair. Mishap two weeks ago getting Nora Jane down from her winter loft storage when I grabbed the release line before I had a firm grip on the lifting line... she fell about a meter onto the trailer, the bottom at the bow suffered a glancing hit on the trailer's jack post.

Turned out to be 'nothing much' once I got her turned over for inspection. Nothing a little grinding & epoxy putty couldn't 'undo', then a lick of paint & she's like before the unplanned drop.

Looking forward to getting her launched this season, hopefully soon!

(Getting tickled for starting another build. Something smaller, lighter, less complicated. Car top-able, no sails, just for rowing.)

MartinC · 5 Jun 2023 2:01 pm

Not much here SP. Weather has been shocking here in the east so we took to the road for a west country hike.
In the unseasonably wet spring months I have been varnishing the decks and refining my tow hook lifting gear for single handed lifting of the boat onto the car roof. (More later). Hope to get her onto the water next week.
Sorry to hear of your mishap but glad no serious damage was done. To you or the boat.

spclark · 25 Jun 2023 2:19 pm

MartinC wrote:

Sorry to hear of your mishap but glad no serious damage was done. To you or the boat.

No, nothing serious. Stupid move on my part, damage easily fixed with a little thickened epoxy then some paint. Hardly shows even to my eye.

Recent post on WoodenBoat forum brought to my attention what may be of interest to you others here; this a post closer to your backyard MartinC:

http://rowingforpleasure.blogspot.com/2 … -boat.html

- and the WBF one that pointed me there:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread. … l-sailboat

Clever adaptation of Hobie's engineering contraption to a more traditional boat design.

(Still working on hinged aka, still waiting for opportunity to put in for the first time this year. Been unusually hot the last few weeks – I think the UK & Europe have been similarly affected? – coupled with a serious deficit of rain. Where we'd normally seen 6 - 7 inches of rain since middle of May we've had (where I am) less than an inch. Navigable water levels everywhere nearby are well below where they ought to be.)

Chuck · 27 Jun 2023 4:57 pm

Greetings all-

Some more sailing notes.

I went out yesterday in nearly perfect conditions, with a steady 10 knots of wind. I was able to attain speeds of ~6.5 knots on a close reach, which I was impressed to see. It definitely took my full attention to keep things under control without the amas! I had 60 pounds of lead ballast in the main storage compartment, but wished I had 120. The last time I sailed with 120 pounds, however, I found that the boat was too front heavy, so I will probably have to figure out how to re-arrange the ballast to put some of it more aft.

After awhile I needed a bit of a breather and hove to with the mizzen sheet tight. It was interesting to see that soon I was making 1.2 knots -- backwards. Steering in this configuration is a bit unusual, too, but could be done. If I eased the mizzen sheet a bit and turned the rudder the other way, I could alter the boat's angle to the wind slightly while still drifting backwards. This was useful to put the main slightly on one side of the boat to make it easier to reach things while adjusting lines on the sail. 'Sailing' in this way would be much more difficult, if not impossible, without some sort of hold-down for the tiller to keep the rudder from moving out of position.

I was able to put in a reef in this configuration by dropping the main into the cockpit and re-rigging things with the sail/boom sitting in my lap. Easy peasy. After I put a single reef in, I was making pretty much the same speeds, but under better control.

My tacking angles were still not what I was hoping, at about 130 degrees. I am beginning to suspect my sail: the leech on the main is always tight, no matter what I do with the outhaul, downhaul, sheet, and where I put the halyard attachment on the yard. It's hard to get a picture while sailing this boat, but the main looks like a pillow -- puffed out a bit in the center, but tight on all the other four sides. This is not like sails on other boats I've been on, nor like pictures from the Storer pages of his lug-rigged boats under sail, which show the leech curving to maintain a smooth airfoil shape from the luff out to the leech (ie, the leech not hooked in). On my sail the curve is more like an arch than like a wing.

Close hauled has the boom going pretty much down the center of the side deck (at the location where the front of the coaming curves). I think this is a sheeting angle of 15-20 degrees.

I am starting to daydream about changing the rig to a sliding gunter, like the ~1905 Ruston Vesper with batwing sails I saw at the Adirondack museum in upstate New York in 2021.

How has sailing been for you guys this summer?

Last edited by Chuck (27 Jun 2023 5:14 pm)

MartinC · 30 Jun 2023 6:34 am

Hi Chuck.

I have been looking at your earlier posts to see the cut of your sail and yes, I agree. Your sail has been cut horizontally with very few panels. In my opinion, it is very difficult to get any decent shape with a sail cut like this. If you look at earlier posts of mine and Guy's you will see that our sails are cut vertically with at least 5 panels and the one you show above has 8 vertically cut panels! My advice would be to have a chat with a good sailmaker.

After any extraordinarily cold Spring we have had a very hot period as SP mentioned and it is only now that we have some decent sailing weather. Now Grandpa duties are not required for a bit I can't wait to get on the water!

Chuck · 1 Jul 2023 10:56 pm

Hello Martin,

Thank you -- I appreciate the feedback from someone with the right experience!

On closer inspection, my sail has pretty significant broadseaming both at the luff and at the leech along the two seams where my three panels meet. A little research turns up that any broadseaming at the leech is usually much less than at the luff. So, before totally abandoning this sail, I am going to try to open up and relax the seams a bit to see if the leech sets better. Who knows -- maybe this will lead to a big improvement sailing upwind, and no need to add a jib! (as sad as that would be

Good sailing!

spclark · 3 Jul 2023 1:35 pm

I'm still stuck high on a dry, hot ridge here this year. Everything's ready to go, even the hitch & lights on the new tow vehicle. Just need decent conditions, maybe a volunteer crew (if I can scare one up for an afternoon) to add some ballast....

That last may not be needed from what you wrote Chuck "I had 60 pounds of lead ballast in the main storage compartment...." which I can easily match with the kit I added last year. Add the nine pounds in the daggerboard, providing some resistance to the ~ 20 lb lever moment from sailing gear when there's no wind acting on it, may make single-handing more expeditious.

Chuck did your sail kit come from CLC? Mine did; I'd expect their sailmaker to know what he's about when it comes to these light craft. Obviously there's more to sailmaking than just cutting & stitching cloth; that much I've learned from looking in on threads posted to the Forum at WoodenBoat.com. Your custom suite MartinC may yet bear copying once I get more water under my keel and some experience with the ballasting scheme I've built in.

Or I may yet simply look to find a new owner for my Waterlust package, trailer & all... move on to something less complicated, lighter weight, easier to get out with when the urge strikes and conditions are amenable. As much as that would be something of a let-down after what I've put into it, the realization that I'm actually 74+ is becoming increasingly apparent to me as time passes. My mental age being like maybe mid-40's now yet there are times when my body reminds me some of the parts are acting their true age.

Chuck · 5 Jul 2023 7:49 pm

Hi Martin,

I remember that you had round brass brackets that you used where the masts pass through the deck. Can I ask where you got those? (Or did you have them custom made?)

Thanks!

MartinC · 12 Jul 2023 6:09 am

Hi Chuck.

I used standard plumbing parts (modified slightly). If you Google 'brass flange fittings' you will find an assortment.

I had already replaced the square section masts with round section ones and increased the diameter of the mizzen as I felt the original was too 'whippy'.

SP Don't give up! Use the skill and ingenuity you have gained with age to devise ways of making the Waterlust fit you! I altered the rig drastically to make it more manageable and it is no less of a boat. (You can always keep the original rig so that you can sell it to a youngster when the time comes).

Bergen_Guy · 14 Aug 2023 10:32 pm

Hiya! Just back from a great two day trip here on the west coast. Had everything from flat calms to running before a squall with far too much sail up! 14 miles the first day and 25 the second. Ten hours underway both days. Svale behaved impeccably throughout, although she isn’t fast when being paddled in light winds, especially when carrying gear and food for three days (I cut short to two as heavy rain turned up on the last day. My most successful mods where a cleat for the main sheet, and the ‘tiller restraining device’ as these enabled me to be ‘hands free’ for some of the sailing, which was a great help.

Nifty nav lights that I sourced for the trip!

Bergen_Guy · 15 Aug 2023 5:31 pm

One other modification that makes long days sailing more comfortable is a re-routing of the mainsheet, which brings it in front of me, so I don’t need to turn around to trim the mizzen.

Chuck · 16 Aug 2023 4:54 am

Nice work, Guy! That looks like it was a very fun trip. Where did you sail, and did you use your amas?

Unfortunately the weather has been too hot and not windy enough for good sailing here, but I hope for better in September!

Bergen_Guy · 16 Aug 2023 9:35 pm

Hiya Chuck, yes I had the amas on, and didn’t really get out of my chair once whilst sailing!

I was sailing in the area between the mainland of Norway and the island of Sotra, and went south into an archipelago to the south, near Austervoll.

spclark · 21 Aug 2023 12:27 am

Good to see this thread's still getting some new posts... been awhile since I looked in (and since I never got wind of new posts I guess I have to <log in> again to start getting e-mails, eh?)

MartinC thanks for your comments. I'm not - quite - ready to throw in the towel on this thing taking up my half of the garage but I did 'run some numbers' yesterday on what a prospective builder'd have to anté up to get started: US $5,900.00 for everything I've bought (at today's prices) save for hardware, rigging, supplies, etc. Besides it's not the right time to list this kind of thing For Sale here in the US....

Obviously the time I spent is worth pretty near naught, but that's no problem from where I sit. The experience OTOH was priceless!

My time's been filled with getting my 1972 Motobecane Grand Record back into roadworthy shape; no mean feat in this day and age!

NOBODY seems to ride tubular ("sew-up") tires around here, I'm having to go far afield to find proper tire cement (the stuff used to keep these things glued to the rims I ride around on) just a bit disconcerting.

But I'm riding it! Did 14 miles this AM on a path north out of town. 5 yesterday on a road east of town that's uphill on the way up, downhill on the way down to where I'd parked.

So I guess I'm getting in shape to use my Waterlust for more extended cruising with its Mirage Drive in place. Still a heavy beast to get to suitable, sail-able water... the lack of which locally – we're about 14" behind in an average summer's rainfall where I am – is still an hour's drive away, minimum.

So...Guy... with your amas strapped on and yourself at the helm, you making these excursions with any additional ballast aboard?

I have yet to put my weighted daggerboard to a practical test, to say nothing of the 'as needed' midship ballast capability I installed a year ago. Hope (plans!!) spring eternal and all that.

Last time out, with a 170# "crew" aboard and the amas for their maiden voyage the results were exceptionally gratifying even without the mizzen fitted.

Major PITA getting away from the launching ramp, but I suppose that's as much practice as because of the extended width of the amas when fitted. Takes me about an hour to 'rig for launching' once I arrive at a ramp.

My project to hinge the aka's stalled where I left it earlier this summer. I have a set of hinges/latches laid up but not yet 'fitted' for use. That ought to come first before I lay up the second set so if I need to change anything in the lay-up I can make the necessary corrections. At this point I'm ambivalent; if I get out yet this year it may be w/o sails just to Get Out And Get Going even if with just the Mirage Drive....

Chuck it's HOT here again too, be 99F this Wednesday. Been kinda windy the last week or so, before that I been riding my bike a lot, not so much when there's a headwind.

Keep reports coming!

Chuck I want to hear of your ventures once you get back out & about later this year!

Bergen_Guy · 22 Aug 2023 6:03 pm

Hiya! No extra ballast on board when I am using the amas - she is quite stable enough with them on. I was carrying camping gear though so the forward storage was pretty full and I had a bit behind me too. The only negative with the amas on is that one needs quite a wide beach to, well, beach on, and for my overnight stop this was tricky as the place was full of boulders. That said I will trade that inconvenience any day for the ability to relax, eat and drink a cup of tea unnderway (from a thermos - I haven’t yet tried actually brewing up while sailing!!)

spclark · 22 Aug 2023 6:27 pm

No surprise she's performing well as intended BG, with your packed-in camping gear AND the amas' augmenting stability!

You have any way to estimate what you'd stowed aboard might have tipped the scales at?

Be really illuminating to have something to compare with MartinC's water ballast, Chuck's lead sheet ballast and the lead bricks / weighted d'board I've got standing by for my Next Time Out.

Keep 'em coming! This thread's nowhere near done I think!

Our Texas builder's report from the Florida trip from a couple years ago was most positive about having amas when at sea. He was loaded up with camping kit & provisions also. While beaching wasn't a problem on the sand he did need help getting his loaded boat up away from the strand overnight from the weight.

Last edited by spclark (22 Aug 2023 6:28 pm)

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