Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Chuck · 7 Oct 2022 12:51 pm

No, not my sailing buddy this weekend. Potential new girlfriend. So, this weekend has it all: the trip I have been thinking about for over ten years and for which I built a boat, a 7-mile crossing of a bay, overnight camping on the beach at a backcountry site 15 miles from civilization, wild ponies prancing around, and of course the Waterlust.

No pressure.

Last edited by Chuck (7 Oct 2022 12:53 pm)

spclark · 7 Oct 2022 3:59 pm

I admire your fortitude dude, I truly do.

More on topic, I've scoped out geometry for a rope-steering 3:1 rig on my hull, following pattern of Coquina's system:

Needed parts (from Duckworks) later this week.

Texas builder's related that he'd thought about rope steering, decided it's not for him after his Florida 120 last year. Tells of following wave action putting a lot of energy into countering his tiller management.

Edit: corrected mechanical advantage ratio after refreshing my high school physics lesson. 2:1 would have steering line secured to frame after passing thru pulley attached to tiller yolk. That second pulley on frame turning line back to single moving pulley adds a third load-bearing chord.

https://www.ropebook.com/information/pu … ey-system/

Last edited by spclark (15 Oct 2022 2:33 am)

MartinC · 8 Oct 2022 5:08 am

Good luck Chuck!
I did a similar thing and we have had 37 happy years togther........ Mind you, she never sailed with me again!

MartinC · 12 Oct 2022 8:10 am

Ingenious SP!

I have worked out a gaiter for the wider main mast using a watering can rose!
First I cut a washer from a tapered trailer roller (as per the mizzen detail posted earlier) and glued it to the deck so it flares outwards at the top. Then I cut the rubber watering can rose (black rather than the green one shown!) to fit the mast diameter.ie

Then I rolled the rubber over the tapered washer:-

spclark · 12 Oct 2022 11:36 am

Now that's ingenious MartinC! I simply 'borrowed' the geometry from LFH's pattern. Will have hardware tomorrow, see if it's sound.

Here on our side of the Pond we have what are colloquially referred to as 'Plumbers' Friend' which may be suitable for what you've employed the WC rose for there. Usually black rubber, of similar shape but an entirely different purpose... no idea what can be employed over your way for the same task.

Last edited by spclark (12 Oct 2022 11:48 am)

spclark · 14 Oct 2022 6:56 pm

Chuck, my pass-thru's've arrived. Check yours for very slight burrs at the corners where lines pass through. Mine has 'em, need a file's touch to smooth a little. Chafe might result otherwise.

Chuck · 16 Oct 2022 10:19 pm

My trip to Assateague didn't turn out so well, and no sailing happened. When the crew showed up in skinny jeans and fur-lined boots, I realized that previous experience was overstated.

But, yesterday I went sailing back in Alabama and had my longest sail yet (19 miles), and got a chance to test the steering lines. My feeling is that it is not as easy to use the steering lines as to use the tiller. Grabbing the thin synthetic steering line is not as easy as I would have hoped, and I think the response with the tiller is stronger, more sure, and more subtle. Maybe my results would improve with a thicker, grippier steering line.

Martin, to answer your earlier question about the kayak wheels: Generally I only used them when sliding them off some other surface, either the top of my car or the trailer. The boat would be slid/overhung to a point where the wheels could be strapped on, and then the boat lowered on to the wheels (with the other end still supported by the edge of the car/trailer). Then the boat is slid off its support even more, but not all the way. With the boat relatively fixed in this position, the wheels could be slid toward the center of balance. The reverse procedure can be used to get the boat back onto things. I had some luck strapping the wheels on/off under the boat while it was half floating at the boat ramp, but I only did that twice and it was not easy!

MartinC · 17 Oct 2022 7:31 am

Thanks Chuck for the kayak wheel advice.

Sorry the Assateague trip didn't turn out as hoped. My similar trip 37 years ago started with the question 'where's the shower' and I have had 37 years of very happy sailing and marriage since. Just not the two together!

spclark · 18 Oct 2022 3:11 pm

Chuck wrote:

My trip to Assateague didn't turn out so well, and no sailing happened.

Bummer. Had been hoping for a more uplifting report.

Recalling similar plans of mine own from half a century ago, we got out under sail both times yet our outings weren't quite as much fun as we'd hoped for.

My spouse (those trips were both before we'd met) doesn't swim so in the 47 years we've been together (45 years married as of this Saturday) she's never gone out with me in a boat of any kind.

This Waterlust design differs in so many respects from the Coquina I'm not surprised Chuck that your rope-steering rig isn't satisfactory.

Larger dia. line in cockpit may help. I'd like to think mechanical advantage may also, why I'm 'borrowing' from LFH's plans.

With additional line for 3:1 purchase (or 2:1 if that's more accommodating of line length) it may be impossible in space available.

I have all the hardware I need for using 1/4"/6mm dia. stuff before line enters cockpit. 1:1 would allow a simple splice on both ends where it passes under rear deck. With the mechanical advantage of sheaves there's more line being handed with precious little room for what has to go underdeck.

Tiller's always an option of course... should my efforts prove worthwhile I'll return here with details... some time in 2023.

Bergen_Guy · 19 Oct 2022 7:20 am

Thanks for sharing that experience with the rope steering - very interesting.

I was surfing the web and found some photos of a lovely sailing canoe from the boat building school in northern France - the photos are worth a look, and the steering particularly I thought was topical given the current conversations.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/skolarmor … 333819650/

On the topic of kayak wheels, I also use mine a lot - (I have the 'luxury cart' from https://www.klepperamerica.com/accessories/), and I do try to balance the boat as best I can when I am pushing a long distance. I don't find the boat tries to roll too badly even when balanced only on the skeg (which I have re-enforced with two layers of dynel tape and lots of graphite loaded resin) I try to put the boat on the wheels empty and then load it up afterwards, and I never have the masts up! I don't strap Svale on, as I don't find she tries to come off - unless I am pushing over some sort of ledge, when I do sometimes have to be a bit careful. All that said, I have dropped her off the trolley a few times, but usually when trying to get across rough or sloped surfaces that I should probably not be attempting. For those of you who haven't done it (and I don't suggest you do) you can rest assured that the hull is sufficiently strong that she has survived with only very superficial damage after being dropped from trolley height onto solid surfaces...

spclark · 19 Oct 2022 12:00 pm

Excellent find Guy, thanks for posting that link! I'd wager something from the past served to inspire their solution to bringing the rudder control around the mizzen mast. From the extensive pics it reflect designs and certainly build techniques from a century ago. I envy their patience and the skills they're applying to this creation! (Wish my grade school French from 60 years ago would permit opening a conversation!)

A metal rudder makes me wonder what's farther forward in the centerboard trunk. There were folding concepts available back when the build techniques were all they had. Todd Bradshaw illustrates how those were constructed in his book Canoe Rig from Woodenboatstore:

https://www.woodenboatstore.com/products/canoe-rig

I've mentally sketched out how something like their 'remote tiller' arrangement might work on our canoes. With their angled stern the elevation change at the ends of the tiller yoke in use affects geometry of lines going forward something fierce, particularly at a pass-thru fitting positioned farthest aft.

MartinC I recall you modified your build with a sternpost-like addition that allows a more vertical pintle arrangement? I may contemplate doing something similar over the winter months, ease the angularity of rudder mounting geometry....

Unabashedly cross-posted: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread. … ost6743098

Guy's thread over on the WoodenBoat Forum's garnered a post showing a clever manner for rigging rope steering in a Nutshell that features a tiller forward in the cockpit for rudder manipulation:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread. … ost6744509

(You may have to subscribe to see pics, but it's free and not at all difficult. I spend a lot of time over there, learned a great deal from its Forumites over the years. Wear suitable PPE when you venture into The Bilge....)

Last edited by spclark (22 Oct 2022 12:57 pm)

MartinC · 28 Oct 2022 3:41 pm

I have been thinking for a while about how to rainproof the boat to keep the inside dry for sleeping.

I have decided on a kayak spray deck fixed to the cockpit coaming, but the problem is that the pedals come up higher than the top of the cockpit coaming.

After considering and abandoning a number of bimini type ideas, I have decided to try and build a cuddy over the pedals onto which I can fasten the front of the spray deck. This would also have the added advantage of keeping any waves coming over the bow out of the cockpit.

The cuddy will be teak or cedar planks and the whole thing will be detachable so that the pedals can be removed. Something like this:-

spclark · 28 Oct 2022 6:11 pm

Makes sense MartinC! I'd prolly opt for carving a mould outa foam insulation, laying up a suitable cuddy outa three, four layers of 'glass/epoxy but that's me. Either approach to 'fixing' the front attachment ought to be effective for keeping water out whether from over the decking or down from the clouds.

spclark · 30 Oct 2022 1:57 pm

To all of those here, a question:

B_Guy you prolly live close enough you might simply drag your Waterlust to open water, but you others?

I felt increasingly compelled this year to part ways with my venerable MINI Clubman after nearly ten years & 92,000 miles. It was becoming evident that necessary service would soon be required for reliability and safety. Where I am that meant a dealer, 100 miles distant and high-$$$ shop rate to say nothing of OEM parts. Capable locals were universally discouraging.

I found what I thought ought to be a suitable used car two weeks ago, brought it home last Tuesday. It's 400# heavier than the Clubman and 4WD rather than FWD. Max. payload differs from source to source, lowest max. being 900#.

My Trailex SUT 220-S trailer + Waterlust run to maybe 350# all-up w/ ~ 45# tongue weight on the hitch. Zero issues towing with the Clubman the few times I could get out since launching last year. No mishaps towing heavier rig behind smaller FWD cars decades ago either.

Class 1 hitches are readily available for the new car, rated to 1,000#. Trailer light controller easily transferred from MINI to the new'un.

Everything in my experience tells me this new car should be fine as a towing vehicle within reason yet upon cracking open the manual this week I was dismayed to find it emphatically stated it's not intended for towing.

I'm curious what you others use to get your canoes to the water.

Last edited by spclark (30 Oct 2022 2:02 pm)

Chuck · 31 Oct 2022 2:19 pm

Hi SP-

I use a Subaru Forester to tow my boat on the same trailer you have. Since the boat is so light, I would imagine that any car you can put a hitch on would be suitable.

Other car issues would be visibility: On my car, the trailer (without boat) becomes invisible for me from the driver’s seat, making it very hard to back the trailer (by the time I can see it, it is already cocked too far out of line). One solution that works for me is to open the back gate for better visibility while getting the trailer on to the ramp. But of course, this has its drawbacks if there is any loose gear in the back that can roll out! I have not yet had a chance to put wooden uprights on the sides of the trailer to help laterally constrain the canoe on the trailer on windy days; maybe I can make the uprights tall enough to be seen from the drivers seat to help act as alignment guideposts when backing the trailer.

The other thing I think might be ground clearance (and how it interacts with hitch height): I find that I need to get the Subaru back wheels actually in the water before the boat floats enough to come off the trailer easily. And, this is with the small ‘8-inch’ wheels on the trailer. Though it hasn’t happened so far, I always worry about the back wheels then spinning on the wet, slippery ramp. But, maybe the Subaru alleviates this concern somewhat with its all wheel drive…

Last edited by Chuck (31 Oct 2022 2:24 pm)

spclark · 31 Oct 2022 3:37 pm

Thanks Chuck. Hitches are pricey, different style for hatchback than the sedan version, which cost less. Still, I'm gonna have to go with the Impreza for awhile, given the state of things. It does have a back-up camera but its position may preclude it having any utility with the boat on trailer.

First thing I did was add 12" wheels, the 8's just seemed too small & I didn't care a bit for the quality of tires supplied. You seem to use yours a lot so they must be sturdier than mine look to be! It behaves itself very nicely behind the now-gone-elsewhere MINI Clubman I drove for close to ten years.

Thanks for your insights!

Last edited by spclark (31 Oct 2022 3:40 pm)

Chuck · 1 Nov 2022 4:41 am

Yes, I've put over 4000 miles on the stock 8" wheels with no detectable problems yet, so they seem to be working...

MartinC · 1 Nov 2022 11:10 am

Hi SP. I agree with Chuck. I am certain your Subaru Impreza will be OK for towing the Waterlust as the boat is so light. I am astonished that it says in the handbook it is 'not intended to tow a trailer', I can only imaging that they are covering themselves in case you try to tow some enormous horse box or something!
I found this online in case it is of any use:- https://www.rvandplaya.com/can-a-subaru … a-trailer/
Regarding trailer visibility I extended the towbar on my lightweight garden trailer so the boat would fit, and this also solved the problem of the trailer disappearing from view.

spclark · 1 Nov 2022 11:56 am

Wow... my hat's off to you MartinC, your Googlefu's impressive!

I missed finding that article you've provided a link to, answers my questions and at the same time supports exactly what I was thinking as I came across those manual caveats! Most confusing to read reverences to towing in several places in the manual only to then find those lawyer-speak bold-face warnings too.

My trailer's aluminum, its shipping weight as a kit is 125#. My adding larger, heavier wheels might add another 60, the tongue jack another 25. Nora Jane weighs ~115 bare hull so with another generous 40# for other stuff I can't see how all-up weight would surpass 400#. Hitch is around 35, I'm close to 180... totaled up, well shy of its 900# limitation found in many sources for the maximum payload an Impreza ought to be burdened with.

Last edited by spclark (1 Nov 2022 11:58 am)

Bergen_Guy · 3 Nov 2022 8:10 am

Martin,

In reference to your cuddy - I have often thought the same, that it would be great to have something there that would limit the spray getting into the cockpit, and having the area at the front as an at least semi dry space. I see that Artemis (https://www.bootsbaugarage.ch/kit.htm) has something very close to what you describe and may be a source of inspiration if you dig through the site.

I also got as far as sketching up a cover that I thought I would make in fabric - with a couple of metal tubes to provide the shape. I will be interested to see how you get on with your wooden version - I think it could be a very nice addition.

I have now made my hollow mast, it needs oiling now to be ready to use. Already on the bench I notice two things. Although lighter than my solid spar, it's not a lot lighter - I have saved maybe 1kg or thereabout. It is also clearly more flexible. It will be interesting to see if the trade off has been worthwhile. I will report back.

I have also been reading the late James Wharram's people of the sea, and got to looking through his designs - and turning my thoughts from Europe in the 19th Century towards the Pacific and their sailing canoe tradition. It's got me wondering if I might try making a 'big' single outrigger for Svale and see how she goes as something like a tacking proa. Just for fun really - and also to give more 'deck space' if I strap some sort of decking between the akas so it's easier to sail with more than one on board. Still batting ideas around!

MartinC · 3 Nov 2022 10:20 am

Here is a work in progress:-

A lot of trial and error here. I have some old teak gunwhales which I removed from a boat about 20 years ago and the intention is to lay them on sikaflex over the plywood. I am anxious to keep the thing as light as possible, but it is difficult to bend lightweight stuff without it breaking. The teak strips will have to be steamed and I haven't done that before, so it should be fun! Plenty of online guidance, and I have made the steaming tube (out of a plastic drainpipe) although I am doubtful it will survive the temperatures. We will see.

MartinC · 13 Nov 2022 12:30 pm

Steaming of the teak planks on the cuddy is underway. A bit amateurish, but it seems to work! The only problem is where the old screw holes have weakened the teak and it tends to crack at these points.Fortunately I think I just have just enough to allow for breakages.

spclark · 19 Nov 2022 1:49 am

Fussy work MartinC but you alone know what you want to achieve from the effort so you're best suited to undertake the work! I'm sure you'll meet with success in this!

Today there comes word of the sale of an early Waterlust built here in the US by a very talented, experienced outdoorsman. He found his build not as suitable for his needs as he'd hoped but its new owner seems to be very pleased with his acquisition!

I'm hoping my encouragement might soon lead him to join us here!

Last edited by spclark (19 Nov 2022 1:50 am)

spclark · 20 Nov 2022 4:04 pm

Stumbled onto a newsbyte just now about this thing for powering a surfboard. Have to wonder if it could be fitted into the Mirage drive well in our Waterlusts?

Chuck · 21 Nov 2022 11:13 pm

It looks nifty, SP, but you couldn't do the Everglades challenge with a contraption like that!

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