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#976 20 Mar 2022 8:57 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 97

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Wow, very nice, SP!  I envy your skill laying all that out!

And, I have a question for you:  You mentioned that you had some wear from the Mirage drive rubbing against the cutout in the hull.  Where did you see that?  I have been dry fitting mine and have noticed that when the fins are all the way spread apart, the base of the 'spine' on the forward fin looks like it bumps up against the hull.  Is this where you noticed the wear?  I am wondering if I should cut a bit more out of the hull to make room for this, or just put some more glass down to provide some more abrasion resistance...

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#977 20 Mar 2022 9:18 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 364

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Chuck wrote:

... have noticed that when the fins are all the way spread apart, the base of the 'spine' on the forward fin looks like it bumps up against the hull.  Is this where you noticed the wear?

Yep, that's the spot:

Drivewell_Wear.png

Kinda minor but easily avoided I think. Once I get Nora Jane down from her 'loft bunk' my plan is to open the drive well hull opening maybe 1/2" on either side, with the cuts radiused so as to blend back into the existing edges a couple inches forward and behind the wear points.

There's more visible wear from topsides, looking down into the well, but presently that's hard to get a view of owing to the rigging holding her up over my half of our garage.

As for my layout skills, having been the progeny of an engineer grandfather and a tool designer father, I naturally took to shop class & mechanical drawing at an early age. Schooled in art & graphics later on didn't hurt either. And thanks for the compliment!

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#978 29 Mar 2022 5:01 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 314

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

A quick report from the water. I got an hour or so paddling in over the weekend. I wanted to test two things. The higher seat position for paddling, and the tiller restrainer.  The new seat position is super. I just made two wooden beams that sit over the longitudinal stringers, padded them with offcuts of foam and placed the folding seat on top. That was secure enough and I could paddle with double or single paddle.  The tiller restrainer was mixed. It’s neat, and worked ok. It was not strong enough to fully ‘lock’ the tiller with just one loop around it, but it was very quick to go from ‘locked’ to ‘working’ position. The other oddity is that the tiller butts up agains a cleat when it’s roughly amidships. That’s a quirk of my precise deck layout and tiller length. It means I can’t lock in a slight right turn, only a slight left turn! Not a showstopper.

CC405F4E-5699-4F28-83EF-E0AFB7FF1E43.jpg
With seat in its new position for paddling.


Now with rope tidy and compass installed

. 6BDACE62-748E-4B92-9DE4-1AD5FF62CA6D.jpg

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#979 29 Mar 2022 5:11 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 364

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Bold venture for late March Guy!

Any idea what water temp was?

That foam rubber work well to keep splash from welling up in the daggerboard slot?

We're still waiting for a weather move out of the pattern that's been bringing us chilly air, it's barely above freezing here today with cloudy, gusty winds. Had a brief taste of spring a week ago Monday, it touched 71°F/21°C in late afternoon but it didn't last long.

My aka-stage build took a hiatus last week after I somehow managed to hook into some kinda respiratory virus (not COVID!) that quickly took the wind out of my sails for the week. Went back to work yesterday, may get back with the router later this afternoon.

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#980 29 Mar 2022 8:46 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 314

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

It was a nice calm day, and when paddling I find the hull very stable, so I wasn't too worried a kit getting wet! 

Yes, that foam stuffed down the dagger board case works a treat! It also means I always have a sponge or two in the boat for drying up any water that makes it onboard. The only source of water in the boat came from drips when using the double bladed kayak paddle. That’s one advantage of a single paddle I hadn’t really noticed before. With the rudder down and ‘locked’ I was able to paddle with a single blade on one side and the boat tracked very straight - so much so that it wasn’t really possible to alter course without using the rudder!

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#981 5 Apr 2022 6:01 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 364

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Catching up on the progress I had to let slide while I was recovering... this morning I cut the scarfs for the last bits of 5mm ply for the fourth laminate layer to go into my ama; here's the jig I made up for scarfing:

Scarfing_Jig.jpg

Then the last scarf's cut:

Scarfs_Cut.jpg

Next is line up the three pieces that'll be the fourth laminate layer so I'm sure there's enough all around the paper pattern to get the final shape out once all four are laminated together:

Check_Line-up.jpg

Finally after applying unthickened epoxy to all four surfaces then an ample coating of cellulose-thickened epoxy to ensure a good bond, everything's clamped up for the cure!

Glued_Up.jpg

Added heat lamps to speed things up a little bit as it's just over 60°F in basement where I'm working presently. I've been using the slow MAS LV hardener a lot more now than with the initial build.

Last edited by spclark (5 Apr 2022 6:04 pm)

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#982 7 Apr 2022 12:14 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 262

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Looks very professional (as always) SP. I am following your progress with great interest.

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#983 14 Apr 2022 11:36 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 364

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks MartinC!

Please keep in mind looks can be deceptive... I'm no professional but I do try to think through what operations are to come next then plan accordingly from what prior experience has taught me!

On that note I've abandoned my idea of using a 12' 2x10 as a strongback for laminating the aka. I 'borrowed' one from work so I can't damage it in any way. Trying to work out a way to add blocking to form the necessary 2" offset in the middle while also allowing proper geometry for clamping proved daunting.

So I've switched to a 12' 1x10 that, with extended 1/2" pipe clamps underneath, can be 'warped' the necessary 2" simply by tightening the clamps a bit. Add another 2" of blocking between clamps keeps work parallel to the form board, also allows clamps to be placed properly.

Aka_Form-board.jpg

As my ply stock is 5mm rather than the 6mm CLC makes their kits with I'm adding carbon fiber ribbons set in epoxy embedded in shallow channels routered into the top and bottom faces of the bottom-most laminate piece:

Aka_CF-enhancement.jpg

This ought to add a measure of stiffness that the slightly thinner stack might otherwise lack, as well as add some reassurance that those scarfs I've put in the laminations won't degrade with use.

Pondering the reason for the aka's deflection with our Texas friend he tells me with his amas in place the aka is essentially flat from their weight. So the deflection is there to keep the amas at a proper height relative to a Waterlust's hull.

Be interesting to have others w/ akas do a simple test once I'm done: support ends well, add a 10# or 5kg weight in center then measure deflection from ends, see how embedded CF ribbons affects their performance in use.

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#984 19 Apr 2022 5:03 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 97

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Very nice work, SP.

I went out Friday night for my first sail of the year.  The main goal was to see how the Mirage drive did.  I managed 11 miles in three hours, 90% sailing in winds of 9-6 knots.
IMG_9315.png
I was quite pleased!  The Mirage drive was SO much more efficient than paddling with a canoe paddle, and was capable of higher speeds with less exertion. 

It was also a lovely evening to be out.
IMG_9311.jpg

On other fronts, I am moving along on my ballast boxes, and have started work on the amas from the outrigger kit.
IMG_9276.jpgIMG_9316D.jpg

Still lots of work to do before heading to Cedar Key in 2.5 weeks!
- Raise seat for Mirage drive
- Install compass in forward bulkhead
- Lazy jacks
- Jib
- Rope steering

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#985 19 Apr 2022 6:09 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 364

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Agreed Chuck, incorporating the Mirage drive was the main reason I bit off buying a Waterlust kit the day they went up for sale back in 2016. It vastly increases the utility of this design when conditions or time constraints preclude using other propulsion.

You're making fine progress with your ama package, I envy you the speed you're getting it done! With any luck I might have my aka done by May, need to get back to the amas themselves too.

Keep us updated please! Exciting stuff as the season approaches!

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#986 20 Apr 2022 10:18 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 262

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Well done Chuck. Excellent progress!
Although I will not be going down the Amas route, it is very interesting to follow your and SP's progress.
I hope to launch  Gaia next week as I have found an excellent riverside launch and storage spot. Will probably have to commision a cover though as I hope to keep her outside all season and she hasn't been stored outside yet!

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#987 22 Apr 2022 2:26 am

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 97

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I'm glad to hear you have found a good place for Gaia, Martin!  Please keep us informed of your first launch -- I'd love to see more pictures of a Waterlust underway on the Norfolk Broads.

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#988 24 Apr 2022 8:46 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 314

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Looks like good progress and exciting news all round.

Today I went for a sail with my eldest boy. So I got a bit of sailing time with the new tiller restrainer- very useful, not perfect for self steering, but a great ‘third hand’ - that will stay.

I also managed to reef afloat, the first time I have tried, and that worked fine, not sure I would have dared try without the outriggers!

On the bad side my son, who was initially in the 8foot pram, decided that Svale was too fast (hence the reef) and that he would rather sail her than his own boat. So although we had a wonderful sail, I spent most of it in the pram!

4F8BEEC4-43EE-4F0F-853A-D0B45E12A17C.jpg

BDB15C5F-462C-44BA-8881-38C5DA024017.jpg
Sorry about the orientation - i tried emailing to myself, but that didn’t work this time.

So, what we found out today that was interesting is that with the outriggers, if you drop the main going downwind, the boom and yard and neatly on the ama - perfect for hassle free landing!

F7A52B26-0E01-4338-8E8A-0AB8A29567C2.jpg

On the best home the wind picked up - and Hannes was miles ahead of me, but I can confirm that you can submerge the leeward outrigger without any obvious issues. Hannes was happily sailing to windward and didn’t give an inch as the wind picked up, I watched from a few hundred meters astern, curious as to how this was all going to go. No problem, is the answer.

The only other thing is my cover is either not waterproof any more, if it’s too waterproof and condensation is collecting inside. Not ideal. Is anyone else keeping their boat outside?

Oh yes, and laden with outriggers and single mainsail, it’s a beast to push back home from our launching site!

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#989 25 Apr 2022 11:23 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 364

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Guy that’s a great reinforcement for what our Texas builder discovered a year ago, that the amas addition adds significant stability to this design! That your son can be trusted to take yours out by himself gives me a solid sense of what awaits me once my set’s done & installed. Whatever complications for ramp-launching I encounter I’m confident they can be overcome with a little (more) patience & practice.

(That last ‘beastly’ comment refers to your efforts physically pushing it home? I assume you’re using some kind of two-wheel carriage arrangement? Most boats are rather unwieldly out of their natural element without mechanical aid of some kind.)

Guy-s_2.jpg

Guy-s_3.jpg

Last edited by spclark (26 Apr 2022 1:55 am)

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#990 28 Apr 2022 3:45 am

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 97

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

A question for you outrigger builders:

It seems that the amount of glass cloth provided in the kit (4 yds) is quite more than needed just to glass the amas. Did you glass the aka as well?  Or, did you just epoxy coat the aka?  Or just varnish coat it?

Thanks for any thoughts...

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#991 28 Apr 2022 10:58 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 364

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

No mention of ‘glassing the aka’s in the build manual, and I’ve asked myself this same question Chuck. My current thinking is no, just use epoxy to waterproof the marine-ply sandwich, as is done with the spars. Keeping weight down’s as advantageous in bits that extend out horizontally I trust as for things that stick up vertically. (Sticking down’s another case entirely as MartinC’s proven!)

I’ll be starting the build of my ‘sandwich’ this morning; CF tows have been epoxied onto both surfaces of the lower-most laminate now. Once the center two layers have been fixed in place I’ll router out the hollows then coat the exposed surfaces left behind with epoxy then add the top layer. That will have received two coats prior on the bonding side, both applied with PeelPly to minimize the amount of epoxy as well as eliminate need for sanding when it comes time to cap off the assembly.

You making any headway on adding a sprit for another sail up front? That’s an exciting potential expansion of sail area for this design! I’m looking forward to hearing about your progress, as well as the effects of that extra ballast you’re building in.

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#992 29 Apr 2022 8:24 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 314

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi! Yes - I found the same, more glass than needed. I only glassed the hulls and did not add anything to the akas. Seems to have worked fine so far, and they got a good workout last weekend with no apparent issues.

I should say that although my akas were made ‘per plans’ with the upward camber, when rigged for sailing they are basically flat - so if you want them to curve upwards when in use I guess they either need making with more camber, or possibly stiffening with something like the carbon inlays that SP is making.

A0A96C72-F801-4465-9A75-DF0732459806.jpg

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (30 Apr 2022 11:29 am)

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#993 2 May 2022 7:06 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 314

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I got out on Sunday for a few hours - a good sail with some proper wind - I managed to give the outriggers a decent workout - real armchair sailing - we are spoiled sitting facing forward, not having to jump around with every tack!

https://youtu.be/zKrVNaBIICo

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#994 2 May 2022 11:58 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 364

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Spoiled... right!

At my age I won't mind being spoiled a bit if I it means staying dry of an afternoon's adventures.

I fervently hope Dillon's stopping by this thread once in awhile...

If plans builders use the full 6mm recommended for their aka I doubt using CF would provide any benefit. I'm using stuff I acquired decades back, measures 5.3mm. My experiment with CF is to add back a measure of stiffness otherwise lost to the lack of the extra 2.8+mm in the completed aka. Guy what's the final thickness of yours? Our Texas friend's measures a full 25.4mm / 1".

(Failed to note how that ply I've been saving has become a bit wavy. I'm sure it'd have been better left flat all those years, an impossible task. There's some irregularities in the camber of my assembly right now that I hope to correct when adding that capping layer. If all the messing about with thinner ply & CF leaves me unimpressed with the outcome I've a heavy plank of 8/4 white ash I've been hauling around for four decades that might get resawn into 3/16" veneers for another go next winter...)

Too, I think from the pics and experiences you both have shared, the 2" camber is enough to place both amas off the water until they're needed. I credit Dillon with getting it right with this design! Add more, putting the amas higher, when they're needed the degree of heel would be greater than what you're seeing. That'd put the above-deck weight of spars & sails further away from CG negating to a degree the benefit of either ama once it's on the water.

Weekend activity got the third lamination bonded, internal lightening done:

Hollowing.jpg
(what a mess!!) then internal surfaces double-coated with unthickened epoxy.

Also got the middle two laminations trimmed to the pattern provided by the bottom piece:

Pattern.jpg

Tomorrow I'll add the top lamination, get it trimmed up & edges rounded on Thursday.

Need to get back with the amas next. Decks are on & that's where I left 'em before moving to the aka project.

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#995 3 May 2022 4:52 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 314

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

SP; My aka measures up at about 26mm give or take!

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#996 3 May 2022 6:22 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 364

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Close enuf Guy!

1.000”, 25.4mm, 26mm… mine’ll end up ~ 21.2mm (give or take!) once it’s done, about 16% less. Have to wait & see if this all affects performance in any significant manner.

Building from plans & available materials certainly affects the time involved.

Any idea what range the wind speed was during your outing last Sunday? Sail looked well-tuned, nice & full! Any ballast besides yourself?

Last edited by spclark (3 May 2022 6:23 pm)

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#997 3 May 2022 6:30 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 314

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

No ballast - I like to travel light when I have the outriggers on.

No I am not certain on the wind speed - maybe a solid force 3 at times?  Without an anemometer I would be hesitant to put too much weight on my guess! But it was a decent sailing breeze, and had it got up any more during the strongest parts I would have wanted a reef in.

I briefly contemplated building the outriggers from plans - but realised how much of a time saver the kit is, on many fronts. One is the cutting, but the other is sourcing the material. It’s great to be able to get hold of just what you need in the kit.

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#998 6 May 2022 6:28 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 97

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Out at Cedar Key for the Small Boat Meet.

Haven't found Hugh Horton yet, but did see his Bufflehead:
A9D15E24-D8CD-4BC2-9EF4-D31477B56158.jpg

The Waterlust handles fairly well!  I did learn that the mirage drive well cover is a necessity when sailing with any swells --
We got a lot of water in the boat surging over the top of the well and had to keep abreast of the bailing. And, even after we shoved a boat cushion in the well (which stopped the surging), we still got more than I expected blowing in over the bow when close hauled.

It was a really fun experience sailing at full speed onto the beach without doing anything but raising the board and rudder, easing the sails at the right time, and stepping out in two inches of sea warm as bathwater.

D7658597-7F87-47DC-B082-A5146F4EB99A.jpg

The wind got up to 17 knots while we were beached at Atsena Otie Key, and we had to make the crossing back at a dead run. We ran with the main double reefed in the front step with no mizzen, and had quite a ride surfing down the waves. 60# pounds of lead in the main compartment served as ballast, and I'm glad we had it. The main got ahead of the mast, and was quite by the lee in that position. When we brought the boat around, the main swung with astounding speed through 180 degrees, and came an inch away from taking my nose off. I am going to be a lot more careful sailing by the lee or with the main ahead of the mast in the future!  I think we should have stepped the main in the middle step, because if we had to sail upwind we would have had awful lee helm. Live and learn.

Outriggers would have made me feel a lot better, but they didn't get done quite in time for this trip -- hopefully they will be ready for the 20 mile CLC race in Maryland in three weeks!

The Waterlust is getting quite a bit of attention and many compliments.

I'm very happy to have gotten my first taste of salt water with my first boat, which I built myself just like all of you!

Tomorrow is supposed to be even windier, and stormy, so I think it will be a walk around town day. Sunday looks to be good sailing again (I hope!)

Last edited by Chuck (6 May 2022 6:59 pm)

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#999 6 May 2022 8:41 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 364

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

OR you could ‘kludge’ setting mizzen in that aft main socket, try Vastly Reduced Sail if you’re willin’!

I’m gonna try that this year m’self, I know Guy’s done it that way. I had mizzen set on main mast (w/mizzen’s spars) once last year but with NO wind I didn’t learn much.

My aka’s shaping up nicely! Rounded all edges yesterday, turning attention to finishing amas (‘glassing, painting) and the bits that marry hull to aka next. Carry on!!

(Also need to go looking for a few pounds of lead….)

Last edited by spclark (6 May 2022 8:43 pm)

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#1000 7 May 2022 10:52 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 314

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Chuck!

Great write up and photo! That sounds like a lot of fun, and a bit of an adventure too. Always interesting to hear how things go when other people try to push the boundaries a bit! I hope the rest of the trip is a success. I would be very interested to hear how she holds up speed wise against the other boats there. I do like the sound of warm water too…

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