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#851 23 Aug 2021 4:55 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Well done SP! Splendid maiden sailing voyage.

(One tip for when the wind gets up. Don't tie the reefing lines around the boom. They should only go around the sail, as the cringles aren't strong enough to take the load if you tie around the boom).

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#852 23 Aug 2021 6:06 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks for that Martin! Reefing's new to me, as are many more aspects of this kind of sailing vessel!

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#853 23 Aug 2021 6:11 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

No problem at all.
You'll soon get the hang of it, and it is great fun experimenting. As in life - orthodoxy isn't always right!

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#854 23 Aug 2021 6:17 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Pretty much what motivates me to get up each morning, the prospects for learning something new!

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#855 24 Aug 2021 12:41 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 282

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Well done SP! That is looking really good, thanks for sharing the film!

I must admit that I am enjoying Svale more and more. After the initial surprises, the adaptations both of the boat and my expectations, I am now getting more enjoyment out of the boat every time I go out.  There is so much to find out, and experiments to try with this relatively new type, but bit by bit my confidence in the boat is growing. I hope the same is true for all of us, whatever direction our own adaptations take us. 

I enjoy so much that she is reasonably light and easy to move around (compared with, say a 15 food dinghy) can easily be dragged up a beach, and the versatility is just great, one day I can be out on a paddling tour with three in the boat, the next day fully rigged with outriggers and full sail, poking about the coastline, behaving half way between a sea kayak and a sailing dinghy.

a few shorts from the weekend

https://youtu.be/JdnrKhbGcXA

https://youtu.be/XL2ytppdqIs

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#856 24 Aug 2021 1:16 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

"I am now getting more enjoyment out of the boat every time I go out.  There is so much to find out, and experiments to try with this relatively new type, but bit by bit my confidence in the boat is growing."

Guy I trust that's true for most who take on the building of a boat. Jeff P. saw my increasing comfort in the last video I posted even though I had to be done & back home for it to hit me. Each outing increases our knowledge and confidence.

This Waterlust is new to me also, my only prior experience being in that bermuda-rigged 14' scow I built a few months shy of fifty years ago. The experiences I had with that, both with friends and alone, lit the spark that had to smolder all those years until the day CLC introduced Dillon's design as a kit.

My sole desire now is that I might have more accessible water nearby; that pond is nice but sheltered, I need to expand my horizons. The one that tipped me into taking on a Waterlust build was also near but mostly disappeared about three years ago during one of those once-a-century storms this area seems to get about every seven years: https://youtu.be/WDkPVIun1cQ

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#857 30 Aug 2021 3:21 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Unfortunately a flare-up of long term back injury has delayed my Norfolk Broads trip, but I have been spending recovery time making the boat more easily transportable for an old chap with a bad back. I have also found what I think is the ideal water ballast solution.
To save lifting her onto the car's roof, I have modified an old trailer of mine to carry Gaia, by simply taking off the two ends and lengthening the tow bar. By happy coincidence, the trailer's cover is about the right size to provide a cockpit tent with a couple of bits of bamboo and some string!
Water ballast:- Two 23 litre tanks with top fillers (Caravan accessories). 23 litres fit better than 25 and there is room for two - one washing/drinking water (white) and one river water for ballast (black).
Gaia-water-ballast.jpg
Trailer with cover:- Tailboard with number plate lights etc goes on the back of the boat.
Gaia-s-trailer-with-cover.jpg
Gaia with sleeping tent:-
Gaia-s-tent.jpg
Gaia with raincover:-
Gaia-s-rain-cover.jpg

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#858 30 Aug 2021 5:38 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

“… old chap with a bad back….”

I can relate to that Martin, very easily. I think your trailering solution’s an appropriate one for dealing with that circumstance. I went the same route once my hull was stitched up soon after getting the project past ‘kit-parts-only’ stage when it became apparent that getting it on & off my MINI Clubman’s roof racks - once completed - would be awkward at best.

Your road-regs require lights off the back with that overhang? Mine’s 42”, I could have gotten away w/o added lighting but chose to wire in an add-on that hangs on rudder hardware just for peace of mind, even with the red-over-yellow paint scheme on my completed & trailered hull.

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#859 30 Aug 2021 8:04 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 80

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Very nice, Martin -- I think many of us are converging on the same sorts of issues!

Two fittings questions for you from your photos:

1) What did you use for a sealing gasket on your main hatch?  It looks like a good solution, and I have been having issues with rain water leaking through my stock un-gasketed hatch...

2) How did you attach the blue/black water tank hold down straps to your hull?  I have been trying to figure out how to keep my water bags from moving around and don't have a solution yet.  Incidentally, I have been thinking more and more about going to 4 lead bricks in the bottom of the main hatch for ~100# of ballast.

Also, I went to the Adirondack Museum on Blue Mountain Lake in New York two weeks ago and saw an original Rushton Vesper (a 16-30 canoe, I think; circa 1905?) displayed.  It was beautiful, and I got as many pictures as I could before it closed.  I'll post more on this in a bit...

Last edited by Chuck (31 Aug 2021 1:59 am)

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#860 31 Aug 2021 6:28 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi Chuck.
1. I used 'D' section self adhesive neoprene for the gasket see  https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/8mm-x-6mm … -per-metre. It forms a 100% watertight seal for the hatch even when capsized - essential as I keep my battery in here!
2. I glued a cross member to the hull (about 4" high) between the two tanks and this has a hole in it for the staps.
Waterlust-tanks.jpg
3. I epoxied/screwed wooden brackets to the mast step box at each end.
Waterlust-tank-strap-fixing.jpg

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#861 31 Aug 2021 1:16 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Reading with interest your reports of methods for adding ballast. Chuck I have to wonder about lead - new 25lb ingots are running $6/lb right now from one supplier I know of; that's pricey! I'm looking into tanks like those Martin's using, for securing in the forward locker.

As for sealing that hatch: I sourced rubber foam weatherstrip (left side below) from the hardware store where I work of the same size & shape as what CLC can provide:

CLC_foam.jpg

vs.

FrostKing.jpg

My single experience so far with this stuff (waiting out downpour before first launch) tells me it might not keep water out as well as I'd hoped. The same company makes available a few other products using EPDM, another rubber type used extensively for roof membranes, pond liners & weatherstripping of all kinds.

One of these products is shown at right above; their products are readily available here in the US. I'm thinking of adding a strip of one of their D-section products stuck to the underside of my hatch so that it further compresses the stuff in the groove on the hatch shelf.

Adding a bilge pump through-hull discharge fittting today, received a grapnel-style light anchor kit yesterday... looking forward to larger body of water soon, hopefully a bit more wind to play in.

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#862 1 Sep 2021 9:50 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

In the latest Small Boats Monthly magazine there’s a write-up for an outfit called Anavim that makes & markets water-fillable buoyancy bags. You can find ‘em on Amazon (of course) and elsewhere if you do an on-line search. Seems like a good idea after reading reports here about improving a Waterlust’s stability.

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#863 4 Sep 2021 3:46 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 80

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hello Waterlusters-

I found a deal online and purchased a "Miragedrive PA17 GTT - Turbo G".  However, it came with no accessories or instructions -- just the pedals and fin assembly.

Do you guys happen to know a part number for the clips that hold the main mounting axles?  And, if any other parts are needed?

Thanks,
 
  -Chuck

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#864 4 Sep 2021 5:40 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi Chuck. I had exactly the same problem!
The clips holding the axles are called 'Hobie Kayaks Click-n-Go' assembly port (81611101), and assembly starboard (81611201).
They aren't cheap I'm afraid. Over here they were £116 for the pair! I guess they will be much cheaper for you in the USA.
When they arrive you will see that fitting is fairly self-explanatory, but if in doubt ask here.

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#865 4 Sep 2021 5:40 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

£116 = US $161; I'm finding listings showing them for ~ US $130 for the pair, likely plus shipping.

I was in the same circumstance last year after I found my Drive on eBay, had to find a source for 'em also. Peeked around on my two laptops but as yet haven't found anything relevant to where I got 'em....

As for a GT manual, it's on-line or send me your e-mail Chuck I can pass along a digital PDF.

Last edited by spclark (4 Sep 2021 5:59 pm)

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#866 4 Sep 2021 8:15 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Done some checking on-line while eating lunch, seems most of the retailers I've found using Google are telling me they're 'currently unavailable'... save ONE:

https://www.outdoorplay.com/hobie-click … ol_size=41

They have left (81611101) and right (81611201) in stock for $64.99 each.

Prices seem to be the same from any retailer I've found. I think that's what I paid a year ago too but from an outfit on our east coast.

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#867 6 Sep 2021 6:26 am

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 80

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks guys -- I have my Click-N-Go brackets on order.

Took the boat out today and had fun. Light-ish winds at 4-6 knots, dying before sunset which made for a mile paddle back to the dock.  I had a nice long break in the middle of the sail with the boat hove-to under a tight mizzen -- I do like this rig.

I have noticed that the boat does not do a very good job of pointing close to the wind in light air.  In gusts, it seems to point a bit higher on its own.

What sort of tacking angles are all of you achieving?  I seem to be getting only ~110 degrees by looking at the GPS track.

With the light air I have been having all summer I am thinking of an option that may be considered sacrilege (or suicide): adding a third sail.  With the big main in the aft step, I wonder if placing a jib out front can be done still keeping the center of effort in about the right place.

The light Vesper canoe in the Adirondack museum was a 16'-32" canoe (circa 1905), and had a sail area of 106 square feet, quite a bit more than the 80 sq feet on the Waterlust.  And, it didn't look like it had any ballast, either (but it does have the infamous sliding seat!).

Or, I wonder if a much bigger mizzen on the Waterlust would be possible (like on Vesper) without screwing up the balance too much.  Then this new sail could be used as either a large mizzen, or a small main with the stock mizzen.  On the other hand, with a jib, you could douse the main and sail 'jib-and-jigger'.

IMG_8722D.jpgIMG_8679D.jpgIMG_8692.jpgIMG_8696D.jpg
IMG_8704D.jpg
IMG_8709D.jpg

The last photo is the best image I could get of the the top of the 'Radix' folding brass centerboard.  Unfortunately, it was not deployed and you could not check out the bottom of the boat.

The lines on that boat are something else -- the reefing lines look like kitchen twine!

Last edited by Chuck (6 Sep 2021 3:58 pm)

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#868 6 Sep 2021 10:56 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

If you go down the route of fitting a foresail to a lugger, be careful about the cut of the sail, as with a jib there will be a tendency for the jib sheets to get caught on the front end of the boom every time you go about. What you will need will be something more like a 'Yankee' with a high cut clew.
PS I love the Vesper. I would love to know what the centreboard/daggerboard is. I would guess that it is this, plus the sliding seat that keeps her upright.

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#869 6 Sep 2021 1:32 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Two books I've found to answer lots of questions as well as provide inspiration are Bradshaw's Canoe Rig and a reprint (I think?) of Manley's Rushton and His Times in American Canoeing:

Two_Books.jpg

I hesitate to put any of their content here owing to issues over copyright yet I can't think why an image in the latter of Vesper is shown, taken over a century ago after she won an ACA race, would face scrutiny when posted with attribution.

Bradshaw frequents the forum at WoodenBoat.com so there's that. He may be helpful if posed with a question or two. That folding centerboard is discussed in his book starting on p. 157 in the chapter titled Leeboards. He also has an extensive section in an appendix on various sail types with measured plans and notes on construction. Having run a business for years making and repairing sails for all kinds of wind-powered craft he's a great resource for his experience.

Both books are available currently; Bradshaw's from WoodenBoat's store, Manley's from Amazon, Abe Books and Press.syr.edu, both for 'reasonable' sums....

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#870 6 Sep 2021 3:42 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 80

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks, SP -- I have Todd's book, but not the Rushton one, which I will pick up.

I've added a picture of the centerboard (of the folding brass type) on the Vesper to my post above for Martin, and a photo of the rudder assembly with sliding upper pintle.

I was also impressed with the fittings on Vesper -- what could they be? chromed brass? nickel-plated something?  The color looked more nickel than chrome.

I've sent an email to Doug Fowler (restorer of the sails on the Vesper in the photo) and provider of sails for CLC asking what he might think about a jib for the Waterlust.

Last edited by Chuck (6 Sep 2021 4:17 pm)

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#871 6 Sep 2021 4:44 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Chuck. That centreboard and rudder must weigh a bit! Like you, I am intrigued by the metal. Looks  like stainless steel but that hadn't been invented!

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#872 6 Sep 2021 11:14 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I'm thinking that hardware may be 'German' or nickel silver. The term 'bronze' covers a vast number of copper alloys, some of which - like those two - have specific names that distinguish them from more mundane alloys.

Meanwhile, I took an opportunity to get out onto Devils Lake today, over south of Baraboo WI. Holiday made for tight parking but the lake itself is big enough to accommodate quite a few boaters so there were lots of kayaks about.

I spent more time in the water than I did navigating under sail, owing to a strategic miscalculation between potential wind strength & whether one reef was enough.

It wasn't.

Predicted winds were to be light but the proximity of bluffs just to the west made for 'too much' once I got away from shore & I wasn't ready for it.

One of my goals for today was to test the auto-bilge pump, which proved its worth. Noted that when it's pumped out enough that the sensor is 'dry' aft there's still 2+" down by the drive well so I deployed a little battery-powered thing I maybe ought to have used earlier to fill the wells on either side of the Mirage drive?

No harm done, lessons galore to learn from. And there's a record from my GoPro I need to review. I may even share a link....

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#873 6 Sep 2021 11:33 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 80

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

SP -- I hope you didn't have an unplanned capsize!

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#874 8 Sep 2021 12:29 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Putting this up here for review & comments from you all:

https://youtu.be/e8LJorVSCiQ

(Having a camera along's a poor substitute for having a capable partner alongside for coaching and analysis but we do what we can...)

Now that I've recognized I was woefully unaware of conditions on this body of water when I launched, I see I misread the conditions I put myself and my boat into that then resulted in my going overboard.

Auto bilge pump was welcome! I estimate maybe 80 gallons pumped out in the ten minutes it ran. I tried climbing back aboard from the side I went over, soon realized that wasn't practical and probably put more water aboard. Doused sails at this point, worked my way around to port, then grabbed cockpit's side. She was easy to bring upright again but with the water inside I waited until maybe half had been pumped out before climbing back aboard, then waited once more not only for more water to exit but also to catch my breath before putting myself back fully aboard.

That lake's quite protected by bluffs on the west side:

Devils_Lake.jpg

DevilsLake.jpg

The ramp I used is in the lee of the hills to the west & south. Little wind apparent when I set out. Add the effect of a high bluff adjacent to the lakeshore to the north, winds from west & southwest are stirred mightily as they come to the lake's surface away from shore. I was about 250 feet out & a bit north of the ramp when I went for an unplanned swim.

I've shared this clip with a couple of other astute sailors. I welcome your critiques of what I mishandled. Seems I need more experience handling two sails on this craft as well as with reading wind signs.

Waiting.jpg

Last edited by spclark (8 Sep 2021 12:46 pm)

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#875 8 Sep 2021 3:32 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi SP. Lovely lake!

If it is any consolation, I have been sailing every season for 50+ years and  my first Waterlust sailing experience mirrored yours almost exactly - except that your capsize was rather more elegant!

Others may disagree, but I think the issues are these.

1. It was your mizzen which pulled you over, so when you get a gust, it is the mizzen which should be released first. The mizzen never needs to be sheeted right in, and you should  have a quick release mechanism on it. It doesn't matter if it flaps a bit all the time - you can always tidy it up when you become more proficient.

2. Your tiller should be out of it's cleat at all times when sailing, as you should be able to 'let go of everything' including the tiller, so that you round up into the wind. This means that you should have a tether on the tiller so you can pick it up out of the water easily.

3. I think your boat - like mine- is too high in the water. I noticed when you climbed in it was too 'tippy', and when you capsized, you reached the point of no return much too quickly. I have been a bit drastic in my response to this, but it makes a huge difference. I now have the steel daggerboard and ballast. Initially, I would suggest you either try Guy's trick of flooding the port and starboard lockers, or put a 23kg water tank in the forward locker, or both. I find I can now sail in most light to medium winds and remain inside the cockpit, ready to peddle if necessary.
As Chuck has discovered, increasing ballast (forward) also has the beneficial effect of increasing weather helm, which helps her round up in a gust to prevent capsize.

Most importantly, don't lose heart! It is easy (and fun)  making a Waterlust  easier to sail.Good luck!

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