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#826 9 Aug 2021 9:35 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 282

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

SP! Congratulations - she looks lovely on the water, I hope you enjoyed the day, and enjoy the next steps of getting to know her afloat rather than on trestles!

I like the look of your mods Chuck - Must take some time to do a few 'upgrades' like that myself.  I am still eyeing up the water ballast in the side tanks, and as I cleared out the garage yesterday, I might have room to start work on that. Stupidly I sealed those tanks completely, so now need to cut hatch shaped holes, in what I imagine will prove to be a rather tricky spot to access!

Happy sailing! I second what Martin says about keeping the sail area down (and rig low) to start with , even the mizzen alone in the middle mast position provided me with enough power to sail along without any big stress before the holidays, they are very easily driven hulls.

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#827 9 Aug 2021 12:53 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Oh yes, after reading the posts here I've been taking 'baby steps' towards first forays under cloth. So many details about how this design might be rigged! On the one hand it's great that it's so flexible while on the other there's the 'play well together' aspect at the same time. Having this forum for sharing ideas and reports of what works or doesn't is a blessing!

Somehow during the excitement of actually launching her I forgot to turn the GoPro on that I'd Velcroed to the mizzen mast....

Here's a link to a brief video I captured:

https://youtu.be/gLr7tKyMZ3c

- once I had a helper come alongside, push the record button!

Last edited by spclark (9 Aug 2021 1:59 pm)

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#828 9 Aug 2021 5:09 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 80

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I grew up in Cedar Rapids, and my sister lives in Madison.  I've been thinking of taking a bit of a tour with the boat to see her and my parents in Iowa, so perhaps could swing by if you'd like some sailing company, SP...

I would agree wholeheartedly about putting a reef in on your first sailing excursion.  On my first sailing trip I went out in what I thought was good wind (9 knots?) and was out less than a minute before turning around to put a reef in.  There is a lot to figure out the first time: where to sit, how to work the lines, auxiliary propulsion, how to use the funky tiller, etc -- adding on-the-water-reefing to that list makes for a tall order!

Wow, SP:  I think this is the first video I have seen of the boat powered by the Mirage drive -- it really moves!  I have been hesitating about that, but I think now I have to put myself firmly in the Yes camp!

Last edited by Chuck (9 Aug 2021 5:15 pm)

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#829 9 Aug 2021 6:45 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

It does Chuck, it certainly does that! This hull is so darned smooth it’s super easy getting it to move with the pedal-powered contraption Hobie created! I’m looking to upgrade to the Turbo fins; longer, a bit wider, moves more water for each push & thus an increase in efficiency. What I have now are the GT fins, then there’s a newer design that permits reversing but that requires a mod to the drive trunk to accommodate the reversing cable. That unit I believe uses even larger fins.

Having the Mirage drive option was what tipped me over the edge to lobby hard back in 2016 for CLC to make their commissioned design available as a kit. I had a hunch it’d improve a Waterlust’s utility when sailing might not have been desirable or you’re out there & the wind just stops.

You decide to come north for a tour let me know! I’d considered Madison’s lakes for potential sailing excursion though L. Mendota may be too powerboaty. Monona’s I think restricted to non-powered? Have to check in on that, and public launches. Monona’s where CLC used to do demos, there’s a small inlet to an outfit called Rutabaga Paddle Sports that sells CLC’s kits among other things. Their launch isn’t really trailer-suitable, more beach-like. I’m two hours away from Madison, ~ 3 to Cedar Rapids.

Last edited by spclark (9 Aug 2021 6:55 pm)

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#830 10 Aug 2021 4:34 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 282

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Step one (I think there is only one step here really) towards water ballast in the side tanks. I fitted hatches in the top, I didn’t have them earlier as I am impatient and had no plans to use the mirage drive, so had left them sealed. That got sorted today. I plan to fill them using a bucket, or Jerry can, and empty them with my portable bilge pump and a sponge.

254DD741-AAA6-41AE-9CFA-5F132CE07695.jpg

Not huge tanks, but some extra weight close to the right place! I will report back after sea trials!

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (10 Aug 2021 4:34 pm)

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#831 10 Aug 2021 4:45 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

If the side tanks aren't enough will you also fill the Mirage drive well also? That's got to be close to the same volume as the two side tanks combined since their bottom's are curved where the central well's basically an elongated cube.

Interesting to see what effect adding water ballast mass has. MartinC's jerry-can solution puts it ahead of the cockpit, will affect trim more than where you're putting it Guy.

When I was out Sunday I was aware - but not overly concerned - with how much the hull under bare poles with my 175# aboard was being affected by the slight breeze that was blowing.

Windage is the name of this, and with the generous freeboard when lightly loaded it's going to be greater than when the hull's displacing more water; this image has me with slight wind coming from rear starboard, canting hull just a little to port:

Lightly_Loaded.jpg

That's a crop of an image I posted earlier, shows ~ half of panel #2 in the water, waterline almost exactly where the manual's initial view puts it:

Design_Waterline.jpg

- so I'm really interested in seeing how that changes with increased loadings and how that affects performance and stability!

Keep the new data coming! I hope I can add more too as the season here grows short.

Last edited by spclark (10 Aug 2021 5:10 pm)

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#832 10 Aug 2021 6:28 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

The side tanks take 18 litres of water each, so together, that is a substantial weight and my guess is that it will 'tame' the vessel quite nicely (and probably without the need for any other ballast).

In a couple of weeks I am going on a  40 mile, 3/4 night camping trip in Gaia, and I  am taking the jerry can and the hand pump, so that if the wind gets up, I can increase the ballast progressively to 60 kgs as necessary. I do like the flexibility of water ballast as the vessel is undoubtably easier to peddle without it (especially important in the tidal waters around here), and if I have only light winds I won't bother to fill either.

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#833 10 Aug 2021 7:53 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin I'd love to see a side-view picture of you in your Waterlust with 60kg additional 'ballast' aboard!

1 l = 1 kg, ~ 2.2 lbs., 60 kg = ~ 130 lbs.

Be a telling document of how displacement changes as the waterline rises against hull panels' edges!

Heck, if there's time and opportunity yet this season I might undertake something along that line myself; grab a pump, flood those compartments sequentially, see what happens!

All while staying safe of course, in shallow water!

Last edited by spclark (10 Aug 2021 8:02 pm)

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#834 10 Aug 2021 8:28 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Not that this is ballast in the true sense of the word, but this is with a total load of 130Kgs!

Waterlust-displacement-with-130-Kgs.jpg

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#835 10 Aug 2021 8:56 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Great stuff! Thanks!

That mass is farther astern, waterline’s higher as expected & more towards aft that bow.

More forward, I’d think the 111 lb extra (your ‘ballast’ less my 175 lbs) would waterline maybe 1/2” - 3/4” higher than my pic shows.

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#836 11 Aug 2021 6:21 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 282

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin, your cruise sounds rather interesting - I hope it works well, and I selfishly hope you will find the time for a short report here!

As for load carrying, I must see what I can find, I had the boat loaded up last year for a three day camping trip, admittedly with no sailing rig, but I had two kids on board, and we filled almost every available space on board with tents, food, water, sleeping bags etc. It was reasonably windy, so I don't think I have any photos of a 'clean' waterline. Let me see what I can find. I should also say that we never had any issues with the boat feeling unstable at all, in contrast to a small paddling trip to the local islands last weekend, with two adults on board, plus myself, and no ballast 'low down' at all, and then the boat felt really quite tippy.

ACE7EDF5-5CCA-4964-9A85-1B67DE3E4FDE.jpg

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (11 Aug 2021 6:25 am)

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#837 11 Aug 2021 10:15 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

No problem with a report of the forthcoming cruise! I am currently fitting Chuck's deck sail stowage design for masts and sails. One on the foredeck and one aft, and I will then move onto the cockpit tent.

My feeling (no science involved here) is that if I stow all lightweight but bulky items (bed roll, sleeping bag, clothes) in drybags aft of the cockpit and all heavier items with the ballast tank in the forward compartment, the weight distribution should be about right. Also, the drybags will act as buoyancy in the event of a mishap and from my previous experiments, it is the aft end which floods more.

I don't promise to capsize, but I'll let you know how it all pans out!

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#838 13 Aug 2021 5:53 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Not really a 'build progress log', but this may be of interest.
This is the route of my forthcoming trip. https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit? … sp=sharing
Tides can run at up to 4 knots near St Olaves, so I am now planning my timings. I am not looking forward to the 2.5 mile Haddiscoe Cut stretch which is a bit tedious (particularly if the wind is on the nose).

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#839 13 Aug 2021 12:40 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 282

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

That looks rather fun! I have never sailed on the broads, but it seems perfect territory for a Waterlust! 

Fair winds (and tides!)

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#840 16 Aug 2021 1:39 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 282

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Just found this http://port-na-storm.blogspot.com/p/katie-beardie.html about another type of sailing canoe - though some of his comments and blog post might be of interest to canoe sailors here!

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#841 16 Aug 2021 1:50 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

"...quick and easy build I had in mind took a year longer than expected."

I can relate to that I can!

After a year and nine months I still have yet to hoist a sail on my Waterlust! Got close yesterday but held back over low water, muddy launch & copious weeds in shallow water. But I'm closer now than when I started so there's that!

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#842 18 Aug 2021 7:05 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 282

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Back from a quick sail with water ballast in. Ok, I had the little rig up, just the small mainsail, as the gust were strong enough to concentrate the mind.

All told a very positive change.  I didn’t do a proper capsize test, but I did tip the boat on its side with and without water in the tanks. The impact it quite significant, with water she definitely shows a much stronger tendency to want to be upright, which has to be a good thing. Quick to fill the tanks and also quick to empty with my hand pump.

https://youtu.be/cjLhuwyfWIQ

For a short video.

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#843 19 Aug 2021 12:57 pm

Chuck
Member
Registered: 24 Nov 2020
Posts: 80

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Very interesting, Guy -- many thanks for posting that video!

How would you compare the water ballast in the tanks to the outriggers as far as sailing stability is concerned?

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#844 19 Aug 2021 1:09 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 282

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Good question, I haven't really done a proper 'back to back' test, with the same rig up and the same wind strength.  I have a pretty strong suspicion that the outriggers have the upper hand though.

When I first tried the outrigger I was happily sitting down in the boat, with the full rig, heavy main mast, and was happily sailing away into the fjord even as the wind was increasing with no big stress. Yesterday, I only had the small main sail up, with no mizzen, and already that rig is way way smaller and lighter than the 'big rig', even then I did sit up on the sides as some of the bigger gusts came through.

I need to put my wetsuit on and just go for it one day, and see how far I can push the boat with the different rigs / ballast / outriggers.  I still feel I need to do a capsize and recovery with the outriggers in place to learn really how much they can be pushed before even they can't hold the boat upright.

The boys are going on a sailing course over the weekend, and I will take Svale with me and sail about with them, so maybe that will be a good opportunity for some testing! I will report back if I learn anything interesting!

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#845 22 Aug 2021 3:59 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 282

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

A0C6FA6C-4933-4358-9547-6BA088F94BAA.jpg

D28D7AFD-B6D0-4185-9B07-E18187B25F58.jpg

A few shots from sailing today. A very interesting weekend, what with yesterday’s sail without outriggers, but with water ballast, and today’s sail without water but with outriggers. It’s clear that outriggers win the stability game and it’s much more relaxing to ‘sit in’ like that. Water ballast though is a great help if you don’t have the outriggers and made a world of difference . For instance the boat appears stable with no one in it, which it isn’t usually if empty and the mast is up. Sadly I didn’t manage a capsize test - sorry ran out of time and had to get the kids to a birthday party!!

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#846 22 Aug 2021 11:32 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I can fully accept adding outriggers adds significant stability, that was the goal of getting them developed after all! Simply flooding those chambers on either side of the drive well for stability's an unanticipated attribute and welcome news.

Thoroughly enjoyed watching your videos Guy, while waiting for you to drop your device into the water...

Got Nora Jane launched this afternoon, same pond nearby as two weeks ago. This time had main set on mast in aft pocket, 2 reefs in (baby steps!) & Mirage drive along. Which was worthwhile as winds were light and fickle yet all in all I look back on the day as 100% successful. Once I get my GoPro files married up & exported into a more compact package I'll put 'em on Youtube, post link here for your viewing pleasure.

Need to reconfigure bilge pump mounting before doing any capsize testing. Fitting discharge hose to pass over port deck causes pump housing to incline 45° pretty much negating the effectiveness of the electronic water-level sensor. Through-port fitting may be in order, besides more 'permanent' base for housing.

Looking forward to getting further afield yet this season now that I have both sails rigged and have experienced both launching and recovery to trailer 100% solo today.

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#847 23 Aug 2021 9:01 am

wilddog
Member
From: Devon
Registered: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 143

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Boat looks fantastic, but interested to know how you manage to reef the mail or drop sail a boat like that underway or drop an anchor out? Assume the outriggers make her table enough to stand or is everything managed from a seated position?


Built a Skerry!

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#848 23 Aug 2021 11:36 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 282

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi wilddog! To be quite honest I have yet to try reefing underway. When getting underway I usually hoist the mizzen before launching, and then hoist the main sail when I am away from any obstructions. That operation is easily done from a sitting position.  I can certainly stand up in the boat but she does become unstable if I venture too far forward.  I have rigged the reefing lines so I can reach them from the cocktpit - and really should do a reefing test sometime soon. I suspect that with the outriggers this will be no big deal, so long as the tack downhaul doesn’t get caught up on anything, and there is a good chance that I would forgo tying in the reefing points closer to the luff.  The lovey thing about the yawl rig is that she will sit very happily head to wind with mizzen sheeted in hard, drifting downwind, and so far has proven to be very happy to sit there without wandering off, which is great.

I have not tried anchoring, but I think others have. A few post earlier Chuck shows a neat system shown for ‘moving’ the anchor line up to the bows.  One of the great things about a relatively small craft like this is that it’s pretty easy to pull up on a beach if you want to stop for a bit. I don’t even have an anchor, although I would like to try one day.

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (23 Aug 2021 11:41 am)

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#849 23 Aug 2021 2:16 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 245

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I can't speak for reefing underway with outriggers, but I can say that without them (and without additional ballast) it is impossible!

In either configuration, I would guess you would have to have lazyjacks to catch the boom as it comes down, otherwise you will have it and the sail thrashing about on the deck/in the water while you try and reef.

I can't imagine that standing up in a Waterlust in a rising wind whilst trying to reef would be a very good idea, even if you could do it!

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#850 23 Aug 2021 3:40 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 319

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

An anchor's in my plans. Useful kit when avoiding grounding whilst sorting out something unexpected. Or just to stop & enjoy the surroundings.

I stopped by a local 'chandler' of sorts Saturday, looked among their stock but all were too large & heavy. Last w/e a new acquaintance I shared the helm with on his Precision 21 while on a tour of Lake Onalaska suggested a 3 pound mushroom's fully adequate for a boat the size of my Waterlust for the bottom conditions on that body of water. Sand or rocks would dictate some other choice.

Yesterday's outing's almost fully captured in this Youtube posting:

https://youtu.be/iI7vU_1lCKc

Nearly an hour in length (my GoPro's battery ran out at the end!) it's unedited so feel free to skip along rather than be bored silly watching from the start!
___________________________________________________________________________________

I have to agree Martin. Unless perhaps you're out under main alone, when the reefs are reachable from the cockpit. Even then it'd be a risky proposition with no mizzen to keep you pointed into the wind.

Before venturing out yesterday it was blowing gusty on my driveway so I took time to rig a lazyjack. Once I'd hung the main on its halyard it was fairly easy tying in both reefs in anticipation of going out later, not knowing what the conditions would be like on the local pond. Having lazyjack made launching easier, I could arrange the spars so nothing was hanging off the side. Same with recovery when I decided to drop sail before pedaling up to the pier.

I'd rigged a small cleat on the mast to tie off the lazyjack's lead. There are enough lines to get confused on this design as it is! With the mast stepped farther forward I may have to add a small turning block or fairlead forward, with another cleat near the cockpit to effect line control.

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