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#401 24 Aug 2020 6:43 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 134

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks SP for the reefing photo. I think we will all need to work out a way to reef the front end of the sail, as this is completely out of reach from the cockpit. I don't think a snap shackle or a hook will work unless you are going to get out every time you reef.

I have settled on an idea I had for my last boat which involves fixing a line to the boom (at the end) on one side and taking it up through the reefing eye and down the other side through a sheave and then along the boom to a cleat. In this way, when you pull the line it tensions the sail both horizontally and vertically. Incidentally, on my sail the reefing tie cringles are so big the knots in the ties pull right through! I have had to thread them through a fatter short length of 3 core to stop them coming out. (PS The ties must not go around the boom, as was in an earlier photo). The following shows this and the lazyjack arrangement.Gaia-sail-arrangement.jpeg

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#402 24 Aug 2020 7:25 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 148

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin do you have a copy of CLC's build manual for their Waterlust? Page 28 illustrates Dillon's suggested reef-point rigging details for the mainsail used with the main mast in the rear socket as a cat rig:

Reefing_Rigging.jpeg

As yet I see no reason whatsoever why the same reef rigging wouldn't work for the twin-sail yawl rig, putting that same sail farther forward with the main mast in the forward socket? Nothing more than extending the reefing lines further aft along the main boom to a second set of cleats would be necessary, essentially a duplicate of what's at the back.

If I'm missing something about why this arrangement wouldn't work with the sail in either position, please enlighten me!

That page also details how your lazyjacks appears to be fitted.

(If you lack a copy of the full manual I can't fathom why CLC would object to my sending you a copy in PDF format. I'd need only your e-mail address & it's done!)

Last edited by spclark (24 Aug 2020 7:26 pm)

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#403 24 Aug 2020 9:56 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 134

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks SP. Regrettably I mislaid my copy of the manual after I finished the build,  but I am gratified to see that my solution and CLC's are almost the same, my only observation being that by replicating the arrangement at the front of the sail at the outhaul end as I have done, means that you don't have to wrestle with a flapping sail and snap shackle - you simply pull on the appropriate reefing line.  I'll let you know how it works out in practice!

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#404 25 Aug 2020 8:29 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 134

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I tried  a number of masthead arrangements for the lazyjacks and halyard and found the following to be the most satisfactory.Gaia-Lazyjack-2.jpeg

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#405 26 Aug 2020 1:24 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 134

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Where I plan to sail, the ability to drop an anchor is essential, and this presents the Waterlust owner with a challenge as the bow cannot be easily reached from the cockpit when afloat. At the same time a painter of some sort is required when jumping ashore and for securing the bow when car-topping.
I have decided to use a continuous loop painter for this job which passes through a padeye at the bow (also used for a carrying handle) and around one of the midships cleats. The anchor line can then be threaded through through the loop in the painter from the cockpit position and pulled up to the bow.
Gaia-Anchor-loop.jpeg

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#406 1 Sep 2020 8:59 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 195

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

oh blimey Gents, I must apologies for my absence here. I too seem not to be getting the usual notifications when someone posts, I was not being intentionally rude.   Looks like you are both making excellent progress. I am intrigued by your 'running painter' Martin, I have also been wondering what to do about anchoring. My solution may be to send the kids onto the foredeck!  I have been making progress with spars, the last few days have been punctuated every 20 minutes by a trip to the garage to put another coat of Deksolje D-1 penetrating oil on. I sort of got sloppy counting coats after 24... They look pretty good now. It will be interesting to see how they hold up. I have debated adding the 'shiny' D-2 top coat, but that looks like a job for warm weather,  so I will try with just the oil finish till next season.

I also have sails! Yippee. My intention is to rig with 'cheap' rope from the local hardware store to get everything right and functional before investing in nicer rope. I can't for the life of me find a source of 'trad' looking synthetic stuff out here, so I want to have the entire shopping list sorted before I put an online order in at Classic Marine.   

More soon when I have rigging pictures to share!

597B81F7-5530-4FC4-9DA5-2ACE0C8D9E13.jpeg
Oiled spars

92792EDF-788A-42E3-A784-0DAECD6FF0F1.jpeg
Masts in!

6411CCAA-6E13-4617-B282-8831FDEC0C77.jpeg
Sails and spars appear to match! Phew!

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (1 Sep 2020 9:01 pm)

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#407 3 Sep 2020 7:52 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 195

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin, I have a question for you about your rigging.  I see you have gone for normal blocks on pad eyes at the base of the mast, rather than cheek blocks. Do you find these blocks hit against the mast, or interfere with it in any way? It looks from your picture like they don't, at least on the right hand side where the main halyard is coming down, but what about the downhaul?  I ask as I can get hold of simple blocks much more easily than small cheek blocks, so was wondering how well your solution is working.

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#408 3 Sep 2020 9:17 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 134

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I have to say that owing to extraordinary weather conditions here and a holdup with supply of various items, I haven't actually sailed Gaia yet!!! However, I have rigged her many many times in the garden and there is no problem with using normal blocks rather than cheek blocks. I also rigged my previous boat like this and never had any problems over the 20 years I sailed her. 

However,do be aware that with the pad eye, shackle and block, the line ends up being higher off the deck than it would be with a cheek block fitted low down on the mast, and you may not want to use fairleads on the deck - I don't. I actually prefer this setup as the small amount of twist in the block/shackle means that there is a straight pull from the block to the cockpit wherever you are pulling it from. To secure the lines, I have used 4" bronze pillar cleats (rather than cam cleats) on the deck at roughly the halfway point, as I think these will cope better with  the slighly elevated block position on the mast - They are also very useful for other things like fenders and general hanging onto, in and out of the water.

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#409 4 Sep 2020 7:22 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 195

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks for that info Martin, I might just do something similar myself. It also means that if I do decide to go full 'trad' and ever want to swap to wooden blocks that's a straightforward swap to make. I suspect I will keep the fairleads on the deck as there is a chance I will use the mast in its aft step, I suspect once the boys get good enough to be cast off on their own, a single sail may make life easier.

Inspired by the arrival of my sails, I have been pushing on with sorting the rig. This has mostly been a case of drilling holes in spars and lashing blocks to them.  I messed up a bit with the the first holes, in that I didn't have the spar clamped hard to another piece of wood, and so the edges of the hole where it exits the spar were somewhat torn. After clamping the spar to a block of wood, I got a nice clean exit as the drill bit came out. I suspect that for MartinC and SP this is not news - but just in case anyone else is about to try this - it's worth the extra minute to go and find a piece of scrap wood to clamp the spar to.

I have been lashing blocks using extra long rolling hitches. It will be interesting to see how well these work and if they actually stay put or not. I am not at all worried about the strength, it's more if it slides along the spar. Especially the block nearest the end of the boom as it's close to where the spar starts to taper, so if it starts moving, I can see it going all the way to the next sail lashing point.

1CB23A1B-1B36-4065-A072-A598A3290664.jpeg
Not very neat

4F4C574F-A2DD-4165-804F-F01D4B8B9104.jpeg
A better job

As you can see my bright white rope is not very attractive - It seems once again that Norway has access either to ultra modern, or proper old school. I have found a supply of traditional rope here, but that's the real deal, Tarred Hemp, Manilla, cotton. Lets see. Not sure I am quite ready to go as far as tarred hemp, but at least the place isn't so far away so I can go and take a look. 

550D1658-BDDB-4E79-802F-8327E39C53FD.jpeg

I am also going to start work on a cover made from tarpaulins. I have in mind a deck cover for when the boat is stored outside, and I also rather fancy making a tent just to see if you really can camp on this thing. I rather like the idea of riding to an anchor as the sun sets with my oil lamp burning watching the world go by.

On that note I have been going down the canoe yawl rabbit hole recently - digging out a lot of books from the heyday of canoe sailing. Lots of inspiring stuff out there. I also got hold of a sheet of lines of the Humber yawl Cassy, by George F Holmes, and am currently reading a book about his exploits. Although I lived in Lincolnshire I have only once sailed out of the Humber, so its inspiring to see what sailing they got out of what on the surface is not a particularly inspiring cruising ground. I guess, as with much of life, it's what you make of it that counts.

66B70C4E-A5F9-4042-BBF4-2B4EEE190D02.jpeg

So - ever onward, I hope the next steps of your builds or launches go to plan.

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (4 Sep 2020 7:30 am)

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#410 4 Sep 2020 11:02 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 134

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Good luck with the lashings! I could not make this work - they slid all over the place which was extremely irritating. In the end I spliced small hoops of 3 strand (6mm) around the various spars and whipped stainless thimbles on to attach the blocks etc. To keep them in place I used small lacing eyes screwed to  the top side of the spars. You can just see these on my earlier photos.

I am really interested in the tent idea. I have been having similar thoughts, and wondered if the smallest  cheapest one man tents could be made to fit? I did a similar thing with my other boat and it looked a bit strange but worked really well.

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#411 4 Sep 2020 11:13 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 134

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Not very tidy- but these seem to work.
Spar-fixings.jpeg

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#412 4 Sep 2020 11:37 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 195

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks for that pic Martin, I think you do yourself a disservice there - I think they look rather nice like that. Your ropework is very neat all round.  I will give my lashings a try - I was keen to spread the load across more than one loop of rope, and also quite like the idea that nothing is quite permanent.

as for the tent, I made a sketch of sorts in powerpoint - I suspect it will need some refinement. The very easiest plan is to press into service a one man bivy bag I have and put a sleeping mat and bag inside it, but I rather like the idea of a nice tent. There is a nice tent shown on this site https://www.thomassondesign.com/en/cata … e-yawl-400 with a lovely large looking tent.

498BF2B0-A045-4661-85A1-5FD2B617DF99.png

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (4 Sep 2020 11:39 am)

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#413 5 Sep 2020 1:34 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 148

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I'm not getting notices of new posts either, despite having signed out then back in again here after my last visit.

(Think the Forum hosts are 'cutting us off' as this thread's grown to be quite long compared to others? Dunno....)

That tent between masts looks awesome B'G! Reminds me of our USS Merrimack from 158 years ago, maybe better known as the CSS Virginia once the Civil War began....

I've been busy, not so much with my build. Hull primer's on, got it wet-sanded on the front lawn last weekend. Then a first coat of Kirby's Classic Yellow hull & deck enamel got rollered on Monday. I ran out of yellow enough to add a second coat. had to order up more which arrived yesterday.

COLOR.jpeg

Going to add epoxy 'bushings' (via the Drill-Fill-Drill method) next for rudder fitting hardware tomorrow before getting back to painting. Maybe the 4th strake gets a first coat of red before more yellow!

Last edited by spclark (5 Sep 2020 1:36 am)

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#414 5 Sep 2020 8:40 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 134

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Well done SP. You are catching up fast!
I am interested to see you have a launching trolly (under the boat) having found out that the kayak  wheels I have been using so far will not work when the mast is up, as they are not wide enough apart for the boat to be stable.
I envisage rigging the boat on dry land rather than trying to wrestle with the rigging when the boat is afloat, so I don't want it to fall off its wheels on the slipway.
Consequently, I have bought a cheap demountable trailer which will go in the back of the car, but I have found that the hull profile is such that it requires quite a lot of modification. It might have been cheaper/easier to make the whole thing from scratch!
launching-trailer-2.jpeg

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#415 5 Sep 2020 4:02 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 148

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

No, that ‘trolley’s’ actually a full-fledged Trailex SUT-220-S I bought earlier this year after realizing this watercraft would be too much to attempt car-topping with. I partially assembled it a few weeks ago once my hull was ready for wet-sanding, and to give me a way to get it off the building platform I started with. That’s now re-assembled in my basement, ready for work yet to do on spars, other projects... maybe a pair of oars over the winter?

Right now the trailer’s tongue’s not full-length. This way I can still maneuver the hull easily in & out of the garage, while leaving the floor in front free of obstructions when I need to get to the other side.

I’d been dreading having to store the trailer outside during winter, when my Waterlust’ll be safely suspended above my car’s garage space. But having bought a kit, rather than a fully-assembled trailer, I think that with the forward tongue section removed (I’ll add a wiring connector inside to facilitate this) I can up-end the wheeled half against the wall, leaving ample space to park my MINI Clubman. Approaching it’s ninth year with me it’s spent 99.9% of that time outside, exposed to Nature’s whims all the while.

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#416 7 Sep 2020 9:44 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 195

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I agree - that's looking great SP,  am beginning to think about Tortoises and Hares...    Nice work on the trailer Martin interesting your observation about portage wheels - I hope I can  get away without one. Lets see...

I have continued with fitting out over the weekend. Lots of measuring to make sure that I drill through the deck into the stringer underneath, and in placed where that was not possible, bonding re-reinforcements under the deck.   I am also trying to preserve a sitting position on the aft deck, but I think the only change I will make is to place the cleat for the mizzen halyard further aft than is shown on the plans.

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (7 Sep 2020 9:46 am)

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#417 7 Sep 2020 2:54 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 148

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Bergen_Guy wrote:

...am beginning to think about Tortoises and Hares....

Might you elaborate on that a little?

Your post generated a 'new content' e-mail I received today. After my last post I unsubscribed to this thread, then closed my browser. Looking in later (checking for new stuff) I re-upped so there may be something needs doing on the user's part when notices cease.

(Beginning to accept the fact that the boating season here will close before I get my Waterlust out onto the water this year. Predicted HIGH in a couple of days is 10°C, but it won't last.)

Been futzing with D-f-D routine for the rudder mounting hardware. Figured it's as good a task to complete before moving on to something else, while I continue trying to select what other hardware I'll need for setting this craft up for sailing.

In the past all the holes I've DfD'd have been in horizontal structures. Took me awhile to work out a practical approach to filling holes not in horizontal stuff, given the hassles of having to deal with epoxy running to where it's not wanted.

I tried setting up little blue tape 'dams' around the enlarged holes I wanted to fill but that was really awkward & didn't offer much in the way of confidence for keeping the sticky stuff under control.

So I fell back on what I learned when I assembled the rudder cassette about using clear vinyl tubing as a mold when I needed to keep those rudder line passages clear & smooth. Used some small pieces of 3/8" ID tubing to form dams that then got sticky-taped over the holes I'd be filling with epoxy:

Tube_Dams.jpeg

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#418 7 Sep 2020 9:20 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 195

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

SP - What I meant about tortoises and hares was that I am starting to wonder if you might have a properly finished vessel before I do! I rushed off at the start but currently seem to be progressing rather slowly (sitting in a field nibbling carrots maybe) after a summer being distracted by a floating hull, while your progress towards the finish line continues unabated :-) I meant it as a compliment, so I hope you take it in that spirit.

This evening I spent a few more minutes fitting rigging. I moved the mainsheet pad eye from where the plans suggest,  aft to attach on the cockpit coaming, it seems strong, and preserves the ‘forwards paddling station’ .

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#419 8 Sep 2020 1:46 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 148

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Bergen_Guy wrote:

...you might have a properly finished vessel before I do!

Doubtful - unless you were to abandon your project, which I also doubt will happen.

My question arose 'cause that turn of phrase you used seemed an odd one for the Forum here. With the added details I'll take it as a compliment. I'm simply glad to have found this Forum as a place to share experiences with others pursuing their projects and this thread you started!

And thanks to Fyne Boats for enabling truly easy image-sharing. With the stuff we're doing the old axiom about a picture being worth a thousand words is more evident than ever.

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#420 8 Sep 2020 2:26 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 148

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Not strictly about a Waterlust project, here's something I came up with that may help others if their local licensing authorities require what ours do here in the US for a Hull Identification Number.

Since 1975 I think it's been a requirement here that boat hulls be 'serialized' with a number that can be used to identify them. There are rules abut placement as well as size, but the most important to my mind is the one about being "... hard to remove without showing evidence...."

I've seen numbers stamped into the hulls of plastic boats as I'm sure you have also. When they're made of wood I suppose they could be carved, but I'm not skilled enough to contemplate such an endeavor. That ours are composites of wood, fiberglass cloth and epoxy complicates things somewhat.

So I pondered for quite some time various methods by which a number could be introduced into my hull, settling on making up a casting of reinforced epoxy that could be inlaid into the hull at the appropriate time during its construction to satisfy the requirement.

I studied art history and graphic arts for a college degree 50 years ago and I've always been interested in doing 'stuff' with my hands. Getting comfortable with this epoxy stuff gave me confidence to try something I'd heard others had success with.

Stamp_Master.jpg

So I found an outfit on-line that would produce a custom rubber stamp 'master' I then could use to make an epoxy casting from that would serve as in inlay:

Cast_HIN.jpg

Used a solution of mineral spirits with a little paste wax dissolved in it for a mold release to paint the master with so I could be sure the epoxy casting would allow the master to be removed cleanly. A layer of 4 oz. cloth was bonded to the initial layer of unthickened epoxy that was carefully poured over the rubber master.

Once that all had cured hard, and the master removed, the casting could be cut up leaving me with an inlay as well as a copy in the event something went awry when I bonded it to my hull.

Then I located the spot where the inlay was to be bonded. Used a small trim router & 1/8" flat-bottom bit to route away a recess that would accept the inlay and sufficient thickened epoxy to secure it to the hull:

Recess.jpg

My hull was upside down at this stage so I had to be mindful of orientation with the inlay! Be a BIG disappointment were I to bond it in upside down...

Finished_HIN.jpg

But it worked!

A couple of smallish bubbles in the bonding mix was the only significant flaw. I left those alone, thinking they were an insignificant artifact of the operation.

If any other builders who're similarly challenged by the need to add an ID number to their project would like my assistance with a similar endeavor as I've described here, they should feel free to contact me via the e-mail address associated with my forum membership here. I'd be happy to help even to the point of fabricating their ID casting if need be. We can work out the details of what this would cost them when the time comes. It's not expensive by any stretch and doesn't take much time either to make up an inlay.

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#421 10 Sep 2020 7:33 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 195

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Still some way to go, the eagle eyed will notice sails not properly laced, a few missing blocks, no reefing lines, but, it’s the first time I have had any sail up. I now have a shopping list for all the things I forgot, and importantly I now have a much better idea how much rope I need to order. Much to my delight I have managed to find a local supplier of nice coloured synthetic rope.

6C4E4F3D-5BDE-43D1-9FDC-518C59C46407.jpeg

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#422 10 Sep 2020 7:42 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 148

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Looks AWESOME B_G, can’t wait to hear about your first adventure under sail!

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#423 11 Sep 2020 7:14 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 134

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I really like the cut of your sails Guy. Mine look really crudely cut in comparison and are the only part of the boat I am not entirely happy with. Are yours Dacron?

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#424 11 Sep 2020 7:22 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 195

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Hi Martin, Thanks :-)

The sails are 5oz Terylene - made by Steve Hall of North Sea sails. I had him recommended independently by two trustworthy sources, and I must admit, so far, I am very pleased. You can see in the picture that I am lacking downhaul tension, but as the main wasn't laced to the yard and boom I didn't want to push it. 

Forecast here is pretty dire for a while so I don't think I will be sailing this weekend - maybe next week. The boys are agitating to get on the water 'with the sails up'.

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#425 16 Sep 2020 7:18 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 134

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Maiden voyage on the Norfolk Broads yesterday! What a thrill!

Weather was hot and there was very little wind, but I am please to report that 'Gaia' exceeded all my expectations.

Car topping was fine although a little time consuming. This will improve as I become more familiar with the process and have purpose made ropes for securing.

I rigged her on the collapsible launching trolley and was glad I did, as the slipway was steep and I nearly capsized her on the slipway. (I will post a youtube video as soon as I have mastered the technology as it is quite funny!). Owing to the pointed underwater profile at each end, you can't assume she will remain upright if she is not supported in the middle!

The Hobie Drive is a joy! Completely noiseless and extraordinarily efficient, although I can't see I will ever get to the 6mph advertised! It is effortless to glide along at about 2-3mph.

My fears about the push pull tiller steering were groundless. You get used to it very quickly and it is very responsive, although you do have to be careful not to drop the tiller. I will be rigging a tether before I go out again. The 'turning circle' isn't great but as with a vintage car, you get used to it.

Stability is fine, but you do have to watch out when raising and lowering the mainsail underway, and if you get a tangle up the mast (as I did), there is nothing for it but to land and sort it out. In the end we didn't do any sailing with the mainsail owing to the lack of wind and the tangle, but surprisingly she does move along quite well with just the mizzen and peddles. I should probably have launched somewhere I could raise the mainsail before setting off- but that wasn't an option.

Busy with minor adjustments now and I'll try and have some photos taken next time. First time out there is just too much to think about without taking photos as well!

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