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#276 15 May 2020 7:19 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 215

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Do let us know how the glassing went!

I will probably try and get hold of some Grey Owl guide paddles. They are reasonably long, thin bladed which should make them easier for the kids to handle, and available in the local sports shop. The other option is to make some myself, which from looking on YouTube, doesn’t look so complicated: https://youtu.be/NqZJ01sNQuw

For double bladed paddles we use Bending Branches Navigator paddles in their longest available length, as the Klepper kayak also has reasonably high freeboard, though not as much as the W’lust.  I will need to do some experiments once we are afloat.

I did have one minor disaster in that the thinners I had in a plastic tub melted said tub and the white spirit and red paint that was also in it leaked out everywhere, including onto the hatch cover. I hope I can get it off, otherwise I might have to paint the hatch cover and just make a feature out of it!

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (15 May 2020 7:20 pm)

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#277 16 May 2020 12:59 am

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 183

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

MartinC I think that batch may have ‘clicked’ early because you warmed it up!

If you can manage somehow to keep your epoxy materials stored at 18-21° C that ought to make them fluid enough to mix properly when needed. It’s the workpieces that should be conditioned before epoxy’s added; approached with forethought the materials will warm the epoxy being applied but at a rate that doesn’t cause the runaway reaction you describe. Some brands can actually spontaneously combust when that occurs!

Keeping mixed epoxy out of the mixing vessels helps too. If spread over a large area, the rapid heat rise possible in a decent volume of mix won’t happen. I bought some cheap plastic storage containers fitted with lids for stuff like that. Each lid has two sides I can pour mixed epoxy onto, then run a roller into to pick up the stuff. Cut the sides off the containers gives me a bottom, again with two sides, making a total of four ‘platforms’ for roller-spread epoxy.

And once cured epoxy peels off the plastic, making re-use a simple thing!

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#278 16 May 2020 8:08 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 161

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Great Youtube video Guy and thanks for the advice about 'clicking' SP.  I had no idea.

I would guess the paint will come off the hatch cover OK - after all it has been epoxied, so it won't get into the wood grain.

Thinners melting the container and spontaneous combustion. Wow! The chemicals we are using are certainly powerful.

Pleased to say 'Gaia' is bubble free this morning. Shame I hadn't discovered the epoxy secrets earlier, it would have saved a lot of sanding. They do say that you need to build your second boat first!

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#279 16 May 2020 5:21 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 215

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Some sanding and a first coat of varnish today. I also got the paddles, which may get painted to match the hull at some stage. My wife finds the wood too ‘pink’ and thinks it clashes with the red stripe on the hull. Hmm, not sure what to do there. Can you get varnish with a slightly more brown colour in it? I will continue with at least a second coat of varnish before I consider paint.

Varnish went on fine, and I tried my best to ‘tip off’ nicely. This will get sanded before another coat goes on.

2B5380A1-F85E-4D24-B66B-C36CD15D41AE.jpeg

29003591-F5C9-4ED2-817F-636CFC825822.jpeg

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#280 17 May 2020 7:53 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 215

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I get the feeling things are going to slow down a bit this week as each layer of varnish needs to dry properly before the next goes on, and with current temperatures that’s taking a while. So here is a peek at the paddles to keep you entertained!

73875A75-6E4C-4D91-A793-8DB07925EA4F.jpeg

5C2EE59D-ECF9-4DCE-9467-E7B9ADCFFECF.jpeg

Probably a little bungee type thing to keep them in place while sailing would be useful. Depends how much other stuff finds it way into the side compartments!

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (17 May 2020 7:54 pm)

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#281 18 May 2020 6:32 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 161

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Paddles look great. Are they the Grey Owl ones?
I got the final coat of epoxy on the deck just before running out. The deck is well covered, but the finish has the 'orange peel' look in places. Looking online this is quite common and isn't serious as they say you can sand it flat before applying varnish. Is this right, or should I apply another coat of epoxy when the new order arrives?
On with the hatch today.

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#282 18 May 2020 7:16 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 215

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Good work Martin;  I haven't had any 'orange peel' epoxy on mine yet, so no idea what the solution is!

Yes, those paddles are grey owl guide paddles. I will report back on suitability once we have had a trial paddle. Which, incidentally can't be that far off, as I think once I have one more coat of varnish on, I can declare the boat at least 'seaworthy', even if it's a long way from actually finished. I am not sure I will go all the way to 6 coats of varnish, but another two or three probably won't do any harm.

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#283 18 May 2020 10:47 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 161

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Guy. I can't believe 2/3 coats of varnish aren't enough. You can always add some more later.

I have now completed the slightly hairy 'one-chance-only' operation of cutting the hatch and I am taking a break while my knees recover!

Did you assemble the hatch sill assembly with wood glue or epoxy? It seems to me that wood glue would be quite adequate and much easier to handle, but it doesn't specify.

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#284 18 May 2020 11:08 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 215

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I used epoxy, but I think wood glue would be fine for that job though. It's all small wooden parts that just need to be stuck together, there isn't really any load bearing going on there.

I agree on the varnish front, I can always add more later. (on a cold winter day when I wish I was boating, I can go and commune with the gods of the sea in the garage...)

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (18 May 2020 11:10 am)

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#285 18 May 2020 11:42 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 161

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Guy.
Any idea why there are 10 hatch toggles but only 6 holes (3 each side)? I haven't had spares of anything so far!

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#286 18 May 2020 12:23 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 215

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

No idea! I did do a double take myself. Maybe you can put one round your neck on a leather cord,  like a shark's tooth, as a secret badge of honor, recognised only by other waterlust builders!

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#287 18 May 2020 12:38 pm

Ian
Employee
Registered: 24 Nov 2014
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I recommend three coats of varnish as a minimum.  I would use three or four coats, depending whether I'm pleased with how it looks after the third.  Six coats is excessive, in my opinion, unless you're going to display it in an art museum!  If you mess up the final coat, you can always add one more.

MartinC: Did you apply the second coat of epoxy with a roller?  It tends not to roll on as evenly as varnish, so either tipping it out with a brush or simply pouring it on and spreading it with a squeegee should avoid orange peel (we usually use the squeegee method).  It doesn't matter too much though, because it should be sanded flat before painting or varnishing anyway.

I don't know why there are extra hatch toggles, but I do like Guy's idea!

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#288 18 May 2020 12:41 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 215

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks for the tip Ian!

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#289 18 May 2020 1:17 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 161

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks Ian and Guy.
I applied the glassing coat with a squeegee and the two subsequent coats with a roller, tipping out with a foam brush, but it was as if the surface was greasy (it wasn't!) as the epoxy didn't stay where the roller left it. It isn't too bad, and as I seem to have a decent depth of epoxy everywhere I will simply sand down and varnish at the appropriate stage. I have ordered some polyeurethane varnish for the deck as I figure this will cover any blemishes better - and with fewer coats.
Thanks also for the toggle answer. I thought I was missing some important hatch!

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#290 18 May 2020 1:30 pm

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 215

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Martin, was that maybe Amine blush? read about it on the web!

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#291 18 May 2020 2:04 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 183

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

https://epoxycraft.com/westsystem/ask-h … el-effect/

This references WEST System products but the same recommendations apply for MAS. I've seen this exactly twice so far, both times using fast hardener on two small items I was coating in my basement shop. Only things I can point to are temperature near 60°F (16°C) and humidity ~ 45%. Fortunately I've never had this happen on my canoe build itself, perhaps because relative humidity in the garage has been lower all along?

In any even it's not something that can't be overcome once the affected parts are sanded thoroughly, the resulting dust removed by vacuuming then carefully prepped by wiping the sanded surface with acetone (careful with this as it's very hazardous!), denatured alcohol or even plain water on a very clean, lint-free cloth. The goal being to ensure there's no latent dust remaining that might cause further epoxy coatings to fail to adhere.

On CLC'S forum another member replied that this same set of conditions affected his efforts similarly. MartinC you've made no mention of using fast hardener so I'm guessing it was perhaps remaining dust from sanding that caused what you're seeing?

As for the extra toggles: my guess is that many of CLC'S kits use these, some need more than others. That mine were still attached to the 'tree' they were born with on the CNC machine makes me think it's a stock item that just gets tossed into each kit! You use however many are required for your build & do what you will with the leftovers. Or throw the whole thing into the scrap pile after ordering up the Delrin toggles they also sell....

Last edited by spclark (18 May 2020 2:11 pm)

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#292 18 May 2020 3:46 pm

Ian
Employee
Registered: 24 Nov 2014
Posts: 86

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

If you've got a bit of amine blush, you'll see greasy streaks after running your fingers over it.  I wouldn't recommend sanding it off though: it clogs up the sandpaper like gum.  You can just wash it off with water and a tiny bit of washing-up liquid, using one of those green pan scrubbers.  Just be sure to wash all the soap off afterwards.

https://www.pecepoxy.co.uk/info/faq/#wh … -rid-of-it

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#293 18 May 2020 4:30 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 161

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I don't think it is amine blush. I attach a photo which I hope will show it

.mini_Waterlust-deck.jpeg

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#294 18 May 2020 4:37 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 161

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks SP. You have hit the nail on the head.
The mystery is that I am not using fast hardner (to my knowledge), I sanded the surface very thoroughly (about 4 hours!), and washed the surface with a clean damp cloth to get rid of the dust. If I do it again, I will use acetone as suggested.
Thanks again.

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#295 18 May 2020 4:59 pm

spclark
Member
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin USA
Registered: 19 Mar 2020
Posts: 183

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Did you allow that freshly damp-wiped surface a proper amount of time to dry off? That’s an important point when wiping with water! Acetone evaporates (“flashes off” is how some describe it!) so quickly its advantages are obvious despite the cost and essential care necessary during use: it’s highly flammable as well as something that will take the oils right out of your skin if it contacts your flesh so please use gloves! And try not to breathe the fumes!

Last edited by spclark (18 May 2020 5:01 pm)

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#296 19 May 2020 8:01 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 161

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I asked Dillon about the gluing of the hatch assembly and the hatch toggles:-

1. The hatch assembly must be glued with thickened epoxy not wood glue.
2. Two of the extra toggles are to hold the mirage drive cap in place and two are spares.

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#297 19 May 2020 8:04 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 215

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Thanks for sharing that Martin - great to get it from the man himself :-)

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#298 19 May 2020 11:04 am

Bergen_Guy
Member
Registered: 6 Feb 2020
Posts: 215

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

I couldn’t resist getting the boat out of the garage today!

A1D4569B-DAA3-4405-AD0E-283C5EE011B3.jpeg

DC51BFD9-D523-4598-B06D-6CB95217C66E.jpeg

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A80ACB6F-58A0-4ADB-97E9-30F5463DE48A.jpeg

I used my two wheel portage trolley to move the boat out of the garage, and I am struck by how light the hull is. Compared with the klepper folding boat I am used to. This looks all rather promising. I also had a sit down in it and was pleased to see that I will have no trouble fitting in it, I am a touch over 6' tall. So, now the question is will the weather hold for long enough to begin with sea trials soon?

Last edited by Bergen_Guy (19 May 2020 11:17 am)

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#299 19 May 2020 1:35 pm

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 161

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Looking good Guy!

Hatch assembly remarkably fiddly to assemble, but an ingenious design. They say you can't have too many clamps!
mini_Hatch-assembly.jpeg

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#300 20 May 2020 11:07 am

MartinC
Member
Registered: 3 Apr 2020
Posts: 161

Re: Waterlust sailing canoe in Norway

Regarding the orange peel effect I have on the deck, I decided to experiment with the underside of the hatch cover and cleaned it thoroughly with acetone before applying the epoxy. Perfect result!

I hope this will help anyone else with this issue. Thanks to SP for pointing me in the right direction. I have no idea how the contaminants got onto the surface. It could be wood dust, a slightly damp surface or dusty mixing pot - but for the price of a small amount of acetone (plus protective gear), it is well worth it.

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